Ubisoft Respond to Wii Gamers Backlash

By Shane Jury 31.05.2008 25

After the outpouring of Casual-aimed Wii titles from the recent Ubidays conference, and the imminent retaliation from Wii owners over the lack of quality control from the company, Ubisoft respond to the criticism.

Posted on Ubisoft's Official Forum, the manager of the forums, Raide, responded with his own personal thoughts:

Sorry it is a bit long but you did want to know what I think.

The true of the matter is this, the Wii is a very different console than what most games developers are used to. The Wii has managed to make a huge success from having games on it that just would not work on a conventional console. The Wii has also managed to increase the market share to a huge group of people that are not that interested in gaming. With Wii Sports, Wii Fit and all manner of games built for family play, Nintendo know who they are marketing for and it is not die hard gamers. If you look at the most successful Wii games, they are not amazing new AAA games, they are predominantly family orientated games/alternative games.

Looking at the current UK games sales for Wii Wii Sales Link, there are not that many traditional games in the top 30. Trends are changing and not everyone wants a new action game, FPS game or epic RPG, sales of the Wii proves that the majority want something different.

Parents who are buying a console for their children do not really care about Prince of Persia, Rainbow Six or Far Cry on the box, they want games that are going to be good for their children and not get them in the local newspaper. Why else would games like Brain Training/Wii Fit/Mario Party sell in the millions if people wanted hardcore games?

Check the Nintendo DS figures in the UK as well. DS Sales Link. Notice whose name is listed there a few times but also notice which games are listed? We make games that will "hopefully" sell to a selected audience. We are a business after all, but Nintendo know which people are their market, just as Sony and Microsoft know who their markets are. Ubisoft have always been aimed at the more mature market (Look at our back catalogue) and in the last few years have started venturing into the casual gaming market. This is because that market now exists, thanks to the rise in popularity of the Wii and DS. The Wii is still a new console and it still has plenty of time to grow, Nintendo know this and Ubisoft know this.

As for Shaun Whites on the Wii, can you at least wait to get some more information and gameplay on it before binning it? Most people have seen a few screenshots and they already hate it because it does not look as good as the 360 etc but to damn a game just because of looks, and without actually playing it is just silly. All I have seen is various forums doing childish Photoshop screens, at least wait to see the game face to face before turning it into a humorous gif.

Do you agree? Have your say below.

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He\'s an idiot.

brain Training and the like should compliment, not replace. It\'s this thinking that has landed Ubishaft in the shitter.

Nintendo still make their base, \"hardcore\" franchises. And guess what, they\'ve still been huge successes. Even Ubisofts own Red Steel has done over a million. People play and accept Brain Training as entertaining filler, not as the all defining game experience. Wii owners, including so called casuals still want the GTA\'s, the Bioshocks, the Mass Effect\'s, etc (GTA is a humongous example considering the serious amount of moolah it\'s made, and can\'t be ignored).

If he wants to know why Ubishaft has had a backlash, it\'s because they turned promising support into shite ports, and the games they make that apparently appeal to casuals don\'t as they obviously haven\'t sold, along with the fact those games they make are rip-offs from Nintendo\'s own Nintendogs and Brain Training etc.

Wii is not after a specific market, it is after everyone. Nintendo\'s own support has shown this - actually look through a decent list and you\'ll see a healthy mix, most of it originating from Nintendo, not a ripped off casual clone done to cash in on someone elses success.

Fuck off Ubishaft.

( Edited 31.05.2008 08:22 by RyanT )

lol, I have not seen those gifs and I actually think Shaun White looks great on Wii, but yeah anyway he\'s talking crap and making lame excuses. Nintendo have always said the the console is for both the traditional hardcore as well as the casual, and it is.

Nintendo have put out casual titles because it has always been their aim to widen the audience so that they can get them playing the AAA titles.

( Edited 31.05.2008 08:23 by Linkyshinks )

Just read the original thread that it came from. Lulz at the fact they've all picked him apart.

YAY!

I think you should post that whole comment to him, RyanT.

Obviously I couldn't have done this within the news-story, so instead here I'm going to do quite a rare thing (in my case anyway), and dissect this one bit by bit.

The true of the matter is this, the Wii is a very different console than what most games developers are used to. The Wii has managed to make a huge success from having games on it that just would not work on a conventional console. The Wii has also managed to increase the market share to a huge group of people that are not that interested in gaming. With Wii Sports, Wii Fit and all manner of games built for family play, Nintendo know who they are marketing for and it is not die hard gamers. If you look at the most successful Wii games, they are not amazing new AAA games, they are predominantly family orientated games/alternative games.

No, it isn't that different. It is a machine you play games on, end of story. Sure, the Wii has a casual audience now, but the hardcore side are still there, and growing by the second for every gamer that buys Wii as either a primary choice or second console. Are you just going to ignore those gamers, because you think it is only the casuals buying the games? Open your goddamn eyes, even you know it deep down - 'The Wii has also managed to increase the market'. Increase, not replace.
Yes, Nintendo know who they are marketing for with these games, but do you want to know the key difference between them and you? They try to make these games with some actual quality. Unlike you Ubisoft. You think that by just sticking what appears to be a DS game as a Wii exclusive, you're doing credit to the casual audience? You're treating them, and us, like imbecils.

Looking at the current UK games sales for Wii Wii Sales Link, there are not that many traditional games in the top 30. Trends are changing and not everyone wants a new action game, FPS game or epic RPG, sales of the Wii proves that the majority want something different.

The only reason the Wii (and mostly DS) charts are casual dominated are because that is all you arsehole publishers seem to provide us with these days. What do you expect? Grow some balls, and give us some decent traditional games, market it well, and let us, the consumers, judge. If they fail then, only then do you have a right to whinge about sales of non-casual games.

Parents who are buying a console for their children do not really care about Prince of Persia, Rainbow Six or Far Cry on the box, they want games that are going to be good for their children and not get them in the local newspaper. Why else would games like Brain Training/Wii Fit/Mario Party sell in the millions if people wanted hardcore games?

Really?! I was under the impression that parents didn't care about what is on the box full-stop. After all, why else would we have to endure money-and-time wasting crap like the Byron Report since most parents are too dense to glance at a number on a box.
You say they don't care about what game it is? Well, make them care! Make a great game, advertise it like mad, get everybody that can play a game talking about it, stop being so f**king lazy!
Of course gamers still want hardcore games, did your own Red Steel not teach you that? 1 million, and you're acting as if the sequel doesn't exist?!

Check the Nintendo DS figures in the UK as well. DS Sales Link. Notice whose name is listed there a few times but also notice which games are listed? We make games that will ďhopefullyĒ sell to a selected audience. We are a business after all, but Nintendo know which people are their market, just as Sony and Microsoft know who their markets are. Ubisoft have always been aimed at the more mature market (Look at our back catalogue) and in the last few years have started venturing into the casual gaming market. This is because that market now exists, thanks to the rise in popularity of the Wii and DS. The Wii is still a new console and it still has plenty of time to grow, Nintendo know this and Ubisoft know this.

You know what? That's fair enough. You make casual games that sell well on the DS, and in some cases, they aren't bad games. But do you know what balances them out? That's right, competent traditional games. Games like Brothers in Arms DS, Lost Magic (debatable), even Rayman DS. We don't begrudge you your casual sales on the DS, as long as you have a decent try on the other end of the spectrum.
Yes, the home casual market now exists, and yes, the Wii is still in its early stages, but exactly what are you doing to help them? Half-assed ports (Far cry, Brothers in Arms, Driver), Nintendog clones that aren't even close to matching its quality (anything wth z on the end). Where is our version of Beyond Good and Evil 2 Ubi? You know, the sequel to that game that sold best on the Gamecube? PS3 and 360 gamers do deserve the game as much as we do, and I wouldn't begrudge them of that, so why can't Wii get a version too? A Prince of Persia exclusive isn't much consolation either, the words 'spin-off' makes sure of that. Wii is the top selling console of this generation, don't we deserve equal treatment, not just the scraps of another big title on another console?

As for Shaun Whites on the Wii, can you at least wait to get some more information and gameplay on it before binning it? Most people have seen a few screenshots and they already hate it because it does not look as good as the 360 etc but to damn a game just because of looks, and without actually playing it is just silly. All I have seen is various forums doing childish Photoshop screens, at least wait to see the game face to face before turning it into a humorous gif.

Yes, Shawn White's Snowboarding has some potential, and for once isn't a PS2 port, which I'm grateful for, and the Balance Board support shows some real promise.
The reason people hate the screenshots isn't because they can't match the 360, I doubt any of us are foolish enough to believe that that is possible, but it is because they can barely even match up to 1080 Avalanche standards. On the Gamecube. Wii can do so much better, and your treatment of the other titles you've released for Wii only goes to highlight these potential problems.

Smilie

\"Why else would games like Brain Training/Wii Fit/Mario Party sell in the millions if people wanted hardcore games?\"

One does not exclude the other.
Your logic is false. FAIL.
If you released some quality titles and showed...despite the larger install base...they sale worse THEN you could complain.
But Ubisoft hasnt release any quality titles. Red Steal was the nearest we got. It was ok for a launch game, but it wasnt great enough for Ubisoft to be dissapointed with sales.

Ubisoft cant just use the success of casual games to say other ones will not work. A lot of Wii owners had Gamecubes. Gamecube owners bought Prince of Persia and Beyond Good and Evil very well.


That said, I wouldnt critse Shaun White so early.
Its not my type of game, but anyone doing so on graphical bases is silly.

( Edited 31.05.2008 16:36 by Darkflame )

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BullllllSHIT!

As per mentioned already above, casual orientated games should NOT be a repleacement for AAA titles.

Corporate publishers like Ubisoft are in a position where they are controlled solely by their bank balance. They don't make video games anymore, they make the most potential profit. They have seen that games like Carnival and Game Party have sold well so that's it. That will be their bar to reach. "Let's make games like this. They're cheap and quick to make, and the sales will be hugely beneficial, regardless of the quality of the product."

And it's the attitude that puts quality on the back-burner that is really getting on gamers' nervers. At least some developers actually try when making casual-aimed Wii and DS games. For Ubi, it's a bout spending the least money possible on the product. Ports and 3-month rushes are the speciality of the day when it comes to Wik games.

Of course, though, Ubi says "Don't forget, we have a reputation to keep". And they do that sublimely... with everyone BUT Nintendo gamers. The profit made from cheap cash-ins we see on Wii is flowed directly into making their next true AAA game on 360/PS3. These console owners are happy because they aren't getting the casual crap that Wii owners have been forced upon, and it gives the fanboys ammunition to attack "that wii piece of s**t"


Ubisoft can try and put as much corporate spin on it as they want, but they don't seem to understand that to regain the trust of Nintendo gamers, they should shut their traps and actually MAKE A DECENT GAME. Their attitude makes me dubious about Red Steel 2. That is their last remaining hope of gaining some credibility on my end.

Going to keep this short:

A developer can make casual games, but shouldn't be all casual about it. Put some effort in.

Ubisoft is blatantly trying to cash in by releasing a bunch of poorly produced crap.

Instead of 5 or more crap titles, hows about 2 really awesome unique casual games, not rip offs or rubbish sequels.

Come on Ubisoft.

Cubed3 Admin/Founder & Designer

Konami Wii'd all over Pro Evo 2008 and made a cracking game for Wii.

Gamespot review says that the Wii online mode is the best online mode of the game on any console.

If Konami can take a massive gamble with a franchise that you just wouldnt ever change the core mechanics of, and be successful then ubisoft dont have leg to stand on.

It seems Nintendo are the only developer with balls who are making Wii games. They originally came up with the "games anyone can play" idea, and while Nintendo make a lot of casual games, that's not their only market. Their market is everyone. They make games for everyone, and that's why Nintendo are doing so well. Yes, Wii Fit is doing well, but so was Mario Kart Wii. If you can call MKWii a casual game after completing Mirror Mode, there's something wrong with you.Smilie
Look at Zelda on the Wii. A brilliant game from Nintendo developed purely for Zelda fans, and that is one of the Wii's best sellers. Also, SSBB is the 2nd highest selling un-bundled Wii game, and does that look like a casual game? No, it doesn't. I should point out that Brawl isn't even out in Europe yet!

Thought you guys might want to have a go at this, it's a good read. Ubisoft could do worse than having a look.

Didn't take long for one of these to pop up. I'm number 10.Smilie Actually, I think I'll stick it in my sig.

You know what I don't get about developers like Ubi. Right, here are the facts

* Wii sold more than PS3 and 360
* Many different genre's are proved to sell on Wii
* Hardcore Nintendo fanbase from the 90's has grown up. We would like to not just play Nintendo games
* Cheaper to develop for, many developers are already familiar with the technology.

Now, all we want is a good, original game. is that so much to ask using tech they already have? Or are they such crap developers, so devoid of original ideas that they have to jump on this casual bandwagon?

I'd like to hear what Nintendo think about this. If Nintendo agree then why do they persist that they still want to make hardcore games?

Ubisoft are a bunch of idiots from the sound of things. There's a lot to read into arguments wise here. Stars will be coming to some of you ^^

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

It is a joke I can\'t believe Ubisoft is doing this to us, I spent most of the day on the Ubisoft form ( I got as page six I couldn\'t read no more) reading what people have to say, looking at the statistics, etc (also looked at that article Phoenixus very very interesting I think it deserves a topic all to itself if you ask me, totally changed my perspective of Nintendo as a company).

I really think Nintendo need to step in here the suituation is totally out of control Ubisoft now has to pay for what it has done to Wii (I think myself Ubisoft should take full responsibility for ALL the shovelware on Wii and DS, as it has set an example to other companies on how to do shovelware quick and easy)

I mean FFS my grandmother could think of a better game and learn how to make it, it\'s totally unprofessional.

( Edited 31.05.2008 19:48 by Ian The Great )

I guess Ubisoft were totally shitting us when they said "Nintendo quality".

Or maybe they think they can release Dogz 2008 and expect the casual gamers will receive it as well as Nintendogs, hm?

Mario Kart, Mario Bros, Zelda, Galaxy, and presumably Smash Bros have all been high in the charts across the globe. They're all brilliant games too, and even a casual gamer can tell the difference between Mario Kart Wii and Dogz in terms of quality.

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

And it says on the forum we should boycott all Ubisoft products (It\'s not like I would actually PAY REAL MONEY for any of that shit anyway) until there is a change in their ways. AS said on the forums:

\"It\'s like them shitting in our mouths and calling it a sundae.\"

\"There pissing in out mouths and saying it\'s flavoured rain\"

( Edited 31.05.2008 21:51 by Ian The Great )

This is utter BS. He\'s pidgeon holing Wii in the \"kids only\" section and coming up with hollow excuses for it that don\'t hold water with anyone who has a mind of their own.

Nintendo has stated countless times, \"Wii is for EVERYONE\". Non-gamers, ex-gamers, casual gamers, and yes, HARDCORE gamers. Nintendo have not forgotten hardcore gamers at all. They\'ve been pumping out AAA quality hardcore games for Wii that have been quite successful, to say the least. Why? Because their quality titles. 3rd parties on the other hand, like you Ubisoft, have been dumping Wii with sh*t half-assed, low-budget spin offs and ports (largely of PS2 titles; shame on you all) of any hardcore games they release on it. So yeah, gamers are not going to jump at the opportunity to desecrate their Wii with sh*t \"harcore\" games.

It really pisses me off how people within the gaming industry like this guy, treat us gamers like we are uneducated and out of touch with the gaming industry. One great example is his comment about Wii\'s gfx. Everyone and their mother can tell you Wii cannot display the kind of quality gfx PS3 & X360 put out. That\'s a no brainer. What we are pissed about is the sheer lack of effort and quality in using what Wii CAN bring to the table in terms of graphics. Look at Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy, Smash Brawl as great examples. These 3rd parties are lazy, cheap, bias, and could ultimately give a rats ass about Wii\'s fanbase. Especially us hardcore Wii gamers. Because according to this guy, we apparently don\'t exist.

It blows my frick\'n mind these corporate and financial \"business professionals\", dont have the intellect to put 2 and 2 together.

The real kick in the balls, is even these \"family friendly party games\" they dump on Wii en masse, are of just as bad quality as their \"hardcore\" titles.

By the way, absolutely brilliant post, Phoenixus. Jeez, everyone here has a great head on their shoulders. I commend you all. *salutes*

*looks at own post* Wow. My posts are quite a bit different than they were about a year ago. People in the industry like this guy have been withering my spirits. *sigh*

( Edited 01.06.2008 01:44 by MechaG2 )

Chance favors the prepared mind.

after reading this I can't recommend more, that Wii owners go up there and leave feedback, not here in virtual independent communities, but going up there and telling them what you think. I know I just did.

Smilie

And now Ubisoft have sent out the Viral Marketers to curb the sh*tstorm.

Jeez, can they get any worse?!

OMG! It\'s an actual gamer VS dev war! A real live one! I\'m so excited! XD

When my exams are all done in 2 days, I\'m so joining this. I want Ubisoft to go down or admit defeat at the hands of Wii fans. Smilie

Thread of this need to be made? :/

( Edited 01.06.2008 15:31 by SuperLink )

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SuperLink said:
Thread of this need to be made? :/

Go for it.Smilie I'd have made one, but I wasn't sure how to base it. Smilie

Done

Overkill? Oh well Smilie I guess we can discuss it further over there, this newsie seems pretty inactive now.

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

Yeah, you guys got it exactl right! This guy himself failes to realise, that you have both, casuales and cores on Wii. The fact, that no core-games are sold on Wii is plainly the fact, that they are absent or all utterly shite!
And Red Steel is one of the best of them - still today.
Why don't they get this? They have the treasures in their IPs, but they ignore them. Prince of Persia may be partly okay not to port to Wii (those bastards!), but not to do a version for Wii of the emerald-gem Beyond Good And Evil on the guys, that are totally into these kinds of games, namely Nintendo-fanboys, is a big hit into our face. That, Ubisoft, is your failure. An Epic Failure!

Nintendo sweeps you away with their line-up? Don't complain they are to strong, make good games, too. Core games! You could have done it with an exclusive BG&E for Wii, but you blew it. Again!

I find your lack of faith disturbing!

I think that Ubisoft has realized that there are many more non-gamers than gamers. Wii provides an opportunity to greatly increase the number of users, and the best way to do that is to avoid making games that only hardcore gamers want and that are boring to everyone else. It is a simple question of epidemiology. I agree that Wii is after everone, it is just that the hardcore gamers are such a minority that they are below the radar.

thstn said:
I think that Ubisoft has realized that there are many more non-gamers than gamers. Wii provides an opportunity to greatly increase the number of users, and the best way to do that is to avoid making games that only hardcore gamers want and that are boring to everyone else. It is a simple question of epidemiology. I agree that Wii is after everone, it is just that the hardcore gamers are such a minority that they are below the radar.

Crap games for children are probably a smaller minority. Zelda and Mario Galaxy have both been in charts. I have NEVER seen one of Ubi\'s \"Z\" games in the charts.

( Edited 03.06.2008 12:52 by SuperLink )

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