News: E308 | Iwata: Focus Had to be on Casual Gamers Page 1

Modplan Man 19.07.2008#1

I find it funny how barely anyone, if any at all, at Nintendo uses the word casual or hardcore and has even gone on to say that people shouldn't just be split into two groups like that, and yet everyone else continues to use it.

Just an odd thing.

jesusraz 19.07.2008#2

...And yet Nintendo often states there is a clear distinction in gaming groups. There's the 'core' fans and then this 'mass audience' mentioned by Iwata in the interview.

Nintendo tends to contradict itself at times, as do many companies.

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Modplan Man 19.07.2008#3

jesusraz said:
...And yet Nintendo often states there is a clear distinction in gaming groups. There's the 'core' fans and then this 'mass audience' mentioned by Iwata in the interview.
Nintendo tends to contradict itself at times, as do many companies.

Their point from what I've usually read has been that they don't want there to be 2 distinct groups. I'm not sure, might go through some old interviews. Am incredibly bored today anyways.

D_prOdigy 19.07.2008#4

As Reggie said, they're still far from satisfied, so they must still see a barrier - and will probably choose to see one as long as games like Wii Fit continue to sell gazillions.

-orion456- 19.07.2008#5

Modplan Man said:
I find it funny how barely anyone, if any at all, at Nintendo uses the word casual or hardcore and has even gone on to say that people shouldn't just be split into two groups like that, and yet everyone else continues to use it.
Just an odd thing.

Your spot on there Modplan.

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Wiill 19.07.2008#6

Modplan Man said:
jesusraz said:
...And yet Nintendo often states there is a clear distinction in gaming groups. There\'s the \'core\' fans and then this \'mass audience\' mentioned by Iwata in the interview.
Nintendo tends to contradict itself at times, as do many companies.
Their point from what I\'ve usually read has been that they don\'t want there to be 2 distinct groups. I\'m not sure, might go through some old interviews. Am incredibly bored today anyways.

The fact is that the Wii Fit crowd will most likely never be interested in The Conduit. Two different demographics. You can\'t homogenise groups with different tastes. Nintendo\'s \'games for everyone\' thing is bollocks. You can\'t please everyone, it just doesn\'t work. You can have \'bridge titles\' like Mario Kart and SMG but those as still selling mostly to gamers, I suspect.

Anyway, I for one am not interested in Wii Fit or Wii music. If Nintendo are trying to suggest (as Fils-Aime has) that Animal Crossing is a core/casual bridge title then they are talking PR rubbish. Some core players make like it, but it has always been a casual game (like the Sims).

( Edited 19.07.2008 18:03 by Wiill )

Erotic_Spider 19.07.2008#7

Is he even aware that the only people that take notice of E3 are actual gamers and not the new audience that he is trying to reach out to?

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Modplan Man 19.07.2008#8

Wiill said:
Modplan Man said:
jesusraz said:
...And yet Nintendo often states there is a clear distinction in gaming groups. There\'s the \'core\' fans and then this \'mass audience\' mentioned by Iwata in the interview.
Nintendo tends to contradict itself at times, as do many companies.
Their point from what I\'ve usually read has been that they don\'t want there to be 2 distinct groups. I\'m not sure, might go through some old interviews. Am incredibly bored today anyways.

The fact is that the Wii Fit crowd will most likely never be interested in The Conduit. Two different demographics. You can\'t homogenise groups with different tastes. Nintendo\'s \'games for everyone\' thing is bollocks. You can\'t please everyone, it just doesn\'t work. You can have \'bridge titles\' like Mario Kart and SMG but those as still selling mostly to gamers, I suspect.
Anyway, I for one am not interested in Wii Fit or Wii music. If Nintendo are trying to suggest (as Fils-Aime has) that Animal Crossing is a core/casual bridge title then they are talking PR rubbish. Some core players make like it, but it has always been a casual game (like the Sims).

So called hardcore and casual though aren\'t different tastes entirely. Most definitions I\'ve come across tend to base it on play style like game length, not on genre.

Who says that someone who takes care of themselves (most likely game for that being Wii Fit) means they can\'t be interested in something action based?

If we are going to start marketing games to specific groups, it needs to be based on interests, which is best defined commonly be genre, not by how long they play, or whether a game is easy to pick up and play.

An easy to pick up and play game is something that should be the Holy Grail for any game. Obviously not everything can be played with one button, but you can come up with ways to simplify a configuration without sacrificing depth - context sensitive buttons (for example, Zelda, where the primary action button changes it\'s function depending on where you are and what you\'re near too - simplifying control, yet not sacrificing depth).

Length is a little more iffy, and does have certain cross over. What most matters about length is that it fits its purpose - for hand-helds, it has to be playable in short bursts, and able to resume quickly, yet that doesn\'t stop longer more involving titles like RPG\'s coming out in droves. Pick up and play, but not sacrificing depth.

As I have often said, I play and enjoy a few quick games of peggle. But at the same time, I enjoy more involved titles like Half Life 2.

my most common problem is usually how these 2 groups that I\'ve essentially admitted to being a part of for some reason cannot cross over, yet I myself do that regularly. It\'s only when things go beyond a certain point in length, or ultra complexity will it affect my tastes. Play style, which is much more what defines the hardcore and casual groups that people get lumped into, will most likely affect people in the extremes. So then, up to that point my taste will mostly be determined by genre, as a generalised way of what kind particular style I\'m interested in.

People are not simple. They are complicated. They have a wide range of interests, of which nothing says that someone even remotely interested in self image won\'t enjoy action, or comedy. In films, they do not say that because I like comedy, I must not like dramas. I like both. There is nothing to say that just because I enjoy watching a film, does not mean I do not enjoy the much shorter episodes of TV. It is much more about whether the content is interesting - it\'s genre, and how it handles it.

WiiFit is successful because lots of people are interested in fitness and personal health, and because it handles it in an interesting way, most likely more engaging than the usual dross of straight to DVD/video fitness stuff, especially with the likes of BMI/weight tracking, and gradual unlocking and rewards similar to what\'s already used in every other game.

While the likes of Fitness is often pegged as a specific demographic (commonly women and housewives), that is much less the case now, especially with extra media focus on personal health. This is why games like these are often considered bridge titles or merely first steps into gaming. They take on a much more base, wider interest that will hook many people. With that, you can get them engaged in gaming with other genres they\'re interested in, rather than trying to sell them what they\'re not right from before they\'re interested.

With this first step, so the business strategy/model goes, because you have sold them something, shown them something they are interested in and is relevant within something they did not really consider before, you can then subsequently either use that new found interest (or they\'ll do it by themselves) to show them what else gaming has, by showing them what other genres gaming has, most likely leading to \"bridge\" titles and things like co-star mode in Galaxy as easy progressions.

People are complex, and have more than one personal interest at a time. Show them something relevant, and something that has a much more base/wide appeal as a first step, and allow them to properly get their foot in the door, and hopefully open it and see what else is there, so to speak.

Casual and hardcore labels don\'t really account for these wider interests. Most definitions I\'ve seen only account for length and how many buttons you have to press at one time (simplification, I know). Defining people by genre and personal interests will do far more to reach new people than labelling a anyone that doesn\'t game a casual, and making labels set up to hit a rather narrow view of a market/demographic.

That\'s what I think anyway.

Erotic_Spider said:
Is he even aware that the only people that take notice of E3 are actual gamers and not the new audience that he is trying to reach out to?

E3 is big press/media event. When they first announced the likes of Wii, along with subsequent showings, they were able to get mainstream press, and therefore, wider audience.

Same strategy. It doesn\'t matter that they watch it live, just that they hear about it.

( Edited 19.07.2008 19:39 by Modplan Man )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]Wiill said:[/b] [quote][b]Modplan Man said:[/b] [quote][b]jesusraz said:[/b] ...And yet Nintendo often states there is a clear distinction in gaming groups. There's the 'core' fans and then this 'mass audience' mentioned by Iwata in the interview.

Nintendo tends to contradict itself at times, as do many companies.[/quote]

Their point from what I've usually read has been that they don't want there to be 2 distinct groups. I'm not sure, might go through some old interviews. Am incredibly bored today anyways.
[/quote]
The fact is that the Wii Fit crowd will most likely never be interested in The Conduit. Two different demographics. You can't homogenise groups with different tastes. Nintendo's 'games for everyone' thing is bollocks. You can't please everyone, it just doesn't work. You can have 'bridge titles' like Mario Kart and SMG but those as still selling mostly to gamers, I suspect.

Anyway, I for one am not interested in Wii Fit or Wii music. If Nintendo are trying to suggest (as Fils-Aime has) that Animal Crossing is a core/casual bridge title then they are talking PR rubbish. Some core players make like it, but it has always been a casual game (like the Sims).[/quote]

So called hardcore and casual though aren't different tastes entirely. Most definitions I've come across tend to base it on play style like game length, not on genre.

Who says that someone who takes care of themselves (most likely game for that being Wii Fit) means they can't be interested in something action based?

If we are going to start marketing games to specific groups, it needs to be based on interests, which is best defined commonly be genre, not by how long they play, or whether a game is easy to pick up and play.

An easy to pick up and play game is something that should be the Holy Grail for any game. Obviously not everything can be played with one button, but you can come up with ways to simplify a configuration without sacrificing depth - context sensitive buttons (for example, Zelda, where the primary action button changes it's function depending on where you are and what you're near too - simplifying control, yet not sacrificing depth).

Length is a little more iffy, and does have certain cross over. What most matters about length is that it fits its purpose - for hand-helds, it has to be playable in short bursts, and able to resume quickly, yet that doesn't stop longer more involving titles like RPG's coming out in droves. Pick up and play, but not sacrificing depth.

As I have often said, I play and enjoy a few quick games of peggle. But at the same time, I enjoy more involved titles like Half Life 2.

my most common problem is usually how these 2 groups that I've essentially admitted to being a part of for some reason cannot cross over, yet I myself do that regularly. It's only when things go beyond a certain point in length, or ultra complexity will it affect my tastes. Play style, which is much more what defines the hardcore and casual groups that people get lumped into, will most likely affect people in the extremes. So then, up to that point my taste will mostly be determined by genre, as a generalised way of what kind particular style I'm interested in.

People are not simple. They are complicated. They have a wide range of interests, of which nothing says that someone even remotely interested in self image won't enjoy action, or comedy. In films, they do not say that because I like comedy, I must not like dramas. I like both. There is nothing to say that just because I enjoy watching a film, does not mean I do not enjoy the much shorter episodes of TV. It is much more about whether the content is interesting - it's genre, and how it handles it.

WiiFit is successful because lots of people are interested in fitness and personal health, and because it handles it in an interesting way, most likely more engaging than the usual dross of straight to DVD/video fitness stuff, especially with the likes of BMI/weight tracking, and gradual unlocking and rewards similar to what's already used in every other game.

While the likes of Fitness is often pegged as a specific demographic (commonly women and housewives), that is much less the case now, especially with extra media focus on personal health. This is why games like these are often considered bridge titles or merely first steps into gaming. They take on a much more base, wider interest that will hook many people. With that, you can get them engaged in gaming with other genres they're interested in, rather than trying to sell them what they're not right from before they're interested.

With this first step, so the business strategy/model goes, because you have sold them something, shown them something they are interested in and is relevant within something they did not really consider before, you can then subsequently either use that new found interest (or they'll do it by themselves) to show them what else gaming has, by showing them what other genres gaming has, most likely leading to "bridge" titles and things like co-star mode in Galaxy as easy progressions.

People are complex, and have more than one personal interest at a time. Show them something relevant, and something that has a much more base/wide appeal as a first step, and allow them to properly get their foot in the door, and hopefully open it and see what else is there, so to speak.

Casual and hardcore labels don't really account for these wider interests. Most definitions I've seen only account for length and how many buttons you have to press at one time (simplification, I know). Defining people by genre and personal interests will do far more to reach new people than labelling a anyone that doesn't game a casual, and making labels set up to hit a rather narrow view of a market/demographic.

That's what I think anyway.

[quote][b]Erotic_Spider said:[/b] Is he even aware that the only people that take notice of E3 are actual gamers and not the new audience that he is trying to reach out to?

[/quote]

E3 is big press/media event. When they first announced the likes of Wii, along with subsequent showings, they were able to get mainstream press, and therefore, wider audience.

Same strategy. It doesn't matter that they watch it live, just that they hear about it.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

D_prOdigy 19.07.2008#9

Erotic_Spider said:
Is he even aware that the only people that take notice of E3 are actual gamers and not the new audience that he is trying to reach out to?

Quite a lot of mainstream news covers E3 - and Nintendo's shreholders want to turn on the BBC and see that Iwata has just announced another game that will make billions.

tiamat1990 20.07.2008#10

So that pretty much confirms that nothing is coming out this year...

patjuan32 20.07.2008#11

Erotic_Spider,

The problem with this year's E3 is that the Mainstream press was there but not retailers. Therefore it makes E3 a prime place to showcase casual titles which will be covered in newspapers like the LA Times, The Washington Post and The New York Times and Magazines like Wired, Time, and Newsweek. This is how casuals will find out about games like Wii music, Wii sports resort, and Animal Crossing.

Also Microsoft focused much of their conference on their casual titles.

With out Retailers the 3 console manufactures, publishers, and developers have little incentive to showcase core titles when no one is looking to purchase them.