Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto recently talked all things Mario Galaxy 2, touching on Zelda and how games can be shown to early.
on Super Mario Galaxy 2
on new Zelda game for Wii
Be sure to read the full interview over at Game | Life.
By Jorge Ba-oh 13.06.2009 48
Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto recently talked all things Mario Galaxy 2, touching on Zelda and how games can be shown to early.
on Super Mario Galaxy 2
on new Zelda game for Wii
Be sure to read the full interview over at Game | Life.
10/10
9/10 (1048 Votes)
I like the zelda part a lot - it is weird to have games announced at a show that are due in no less than 18 months. Just wait for next year...
Also, a Mario story could be fun, but the galaxy rosalina type version was admittedly more fitting for a platformer like that.
I like where this is going. I think it was a fun and noteworthy e3 for a nintendo fan.
Originally tried having Mario and Luigi both on screen in Mario 64, experimented with different camera techniques.
Miyamoto would like to go for a little story as possible - he felt that Mario titles aren't suited to a story. He feels backstories and character development might "weigh down the bright and fun feel" of a game.
Galaxy's director Yoshiaki Koizumi hope to bring more story elements in, but with a little (unfortunate) persuasion from Miyamoto he's agreed that there doesn't need to be as deep a story.
Lemme guess the plot for this one...
- Bowser tries the same thing. Rosalina helps Mario out.
or...
- Bowser still has remnants of forces scattered across the Galaxy.
The team have been focusing on gameplay/control elements, as opposed to visuals/story - and didn't want to waste efforts creating a trailer for E3 too soon.
This guy makes great games, but he's far too hesitant to change/evolve their formulas.
I think both Zelda and Mario need a total rehaul - Mario Galaxy could have had a good story, nothing complicated
I think that\'s the major thing Nintendo\'s biggeer franchises have lacked - a good story.
Good in a way that Nintendo has been holding off on showing the new Zelda, Twilight was shown pretty early and was missing a fair bit of stuff in the final game.
( Edited 13.06.2009 12:56 by jb )
I don\'t really want a story in mario, the sunshine one was horrible. But a good story for Zelda is a must really, as long as they don\'t go overboard and make it all sentimental like that scene in the second or so village in Twilight Princess. God I hate that.
( Edited 13.06.2009 13:01 by Bart.... )
jb said:
I think both Zelda and Mario need a total rehaul - Mario Galaxy could have had a good story, nothing complicated
Sounds like the plot for Sonic and the Black Knight to me
The thing is, Galaxy did have a good plot at one point. Rosalina was supposed to be related to Peach in some way (remember the Luma Peach was holding at the beginning? Never explained). That kind of relation would have actually progressed the Mario universe\'s story beyond the bare basics for the first time. You-know-who hated it though.
( Edited 13.06.2009 19:18 by SuperLink )
Miyamoto would like to go for a little story as possible - he felt that Mario titles aren't suited to a story. He feels backstories and character development might "weigh down the bright and fun feel" of a game.I agree! But at the same time, I would have heard what ideas Yoshiaki Koizumi has to a deep story. It may give Mario a bit of fresh breeze. But for stories, we have Paper Mario, haven't we?
Feels the industry has gotten into a habit of announcing/showing games too early.Oh, yes! Absolutely! We even have forgotten some of the games already announced...
Felt Metroid announcement was more important game to show at E3Yes, he's right. I am glad they did it this way. We should have next summer's E3 ready for Zelda. And then I want to know a hell lotta stuff about the game!
To possibly include Motion Plus is a bit plus for me! I do want a story, but a great gaming experience is what keeps me at bay playing Zelda.
I don't know what I would expect from a Zelda-story, but as they are going for a sequel to TP (because the artwork tells me so), they should have a story going, but I doubt it will be deeper then TP's. But without a story? I don't want a 'chasing hearts'-game without so much as ANY story in it. SuperLink is kinda right...
After your second playthrough with Luigi, did you read the storybook again? Nope? Then fuck the story, keep the games pace consistent. Action all the way.
As for Zelda I'm glad to hear that Motion Plus is the main focus for this game. Now we need a shed load of diverse dungeon with every item to be M.Plus enabled, including Epona (pull back the controllers to giddy up or something)
I will play it for years.
I'm currently playing SMG with Luigi (about 45 stars in) and I don't bother with the storybook. I just want the gameplay.
Which doesn't mean I don't like a story on my first run.
Canyarion said:
Which doesn't mean I don't like a story on my first run.
Kingdom Hearts (IMO) has an awesome story. However the cutscenes are unskippable and actually make me hesistant to play through the game again, because some of them are loooong. Thankfully they fixed this with KHII and Final Mix.
As for the story book, I did enjoy reading through it the first time, it's probably the only time a Mario character is ever shown to have had real character development. That said, it was pretty weak. They shoulda kept the family relation thing in there.
All positive stuff.
I always think games are announced WAY too early too.
Id much rather games were kept secret till a few months before, actualy.
--
As for MarioGalaxy, Id like to see more playing with gravity.
Ie. Let mario spin around a small planetoid and go flying into orbit.
Its a shame Miyamoto is so anti-story though. I get the need for not too much complexcity...but a nice little story would add a lot.
I loved the shear crazyness of Galaxys ending though. Was almost as fucked-up as monkey island 2s.
Doesn't he get it? The story is one of the most tired parts of the series...
Not really. Majoras Mask was the only one with a decent story. All the rest kinda suck
What makes Zelda's world so wonderfull isnt the big overall story, but the little ones. The landscape is always so full of life.
TP's story was plenty deep enough for me. It just needed to be -different-. Stop using Ganon as the main villian would be the main one.
I trust Eiji a lot more then Miyamoto for Zelda for this reason. I think Miyamoto keeps pulling story ideas in a bit.
Anyway, very pleased that MP is a requirement.
Id like to see it used for more then a sword, but not everything. IR is better for aiming stuff. (arrowss).
MP would be great for whip/grapping hock though.
(as long as they dont pull a wind-waker lameness and have that AND a hockshot AND a hockshot upgrade...)
Darkflame said:
What makes Zelda's world so wonderfull isnt the big overall story, but the little ones. The landscape is always so full of life.
I trust Eiji a lot more then Miyamoto for Zelda for this reason. I think Miyamoto keeps pulling story ideas in a bit.
Anyway, very pleased that MP is a requirement.
he felt that Mario titles aren't suited to a story. He feels backstories and character development might "weigh down the bright and fun feel" of a game.
*claps* Give this man sonic.
So this likely means no new Zelda anytime soon. That makes me sad
But hopefully it'll be great, when it does come out.
I like that they're focusing on gameplay. The Zelda series needs a reboot in that department. It's gotten to the point where it feels like the same game with slightly different story and MAYBE some different items.
I've noticed they've been taking more and more inspiration from Shadow of the Colossus. And every time they've wandered down that road, I've liked what I've seen. I mean, that water snake battle in TP was epic. Majora's Mask is probably my favorite game in the series, and I really loved Wind Waker's storyline. OoT is a classic. TP featured elements of them all, but the repetition really held it back.
I wonder if Miyamoto has ever played a decent RPG in his life.
justonesp00lturn said:
So this likely means no new Zelda anytime soon. That makes me sad
But hopefully it'll be great, when it does come out.
The Mario games aren't RPGs, though. Not saying you said they were, but there is a big difference. It's pretty given that RPGs need storylines. I think RPGs and Survival Horror games are the most story-dependant genres of videos games. People can pick up an action game or a FPS and not even need the story to have fun; that's a lot harder when it comes to RPGs and to SH.
The reason I said Miyamoto must have never played a good RPG is because his idea of a story that is "too deep for a platformer" is a little storybook backstory. This makes me worry for Zelda too. Zelda would benefit infinitely from having a great story (like MM did) but if Miyamoto is breathing down the neck of Aonuma the whole time then Zelda will never be any more interesting than it is now, which is not much, when it should be much more.
As for your next point, that's where my point on series evolution comes from. Story does in no way imply "deepness" or "seriousness", and neither does a little character development or backstory. A good story doesn't need any of those things, as long as it's done right. Heck, Rosalina's past was even a bit too "serious" for what I would consider an ideal Mario story.
Mario has no need for a story. Its the fantastic and ingenious platforming that drives the action forward.
You dont need much of a story, but a light story can add so much.
Especialy when people under Nintendos command have a lot of wit. I\'d love to see the team that did SuperStarSaga write a story for MarioGalaxy2, for example.
No one could accuse that team of taking anything too seriously
A few Zeldas do have particularly memorable stories though. Link\'s Awakening, Oracle games, OoT and MM (for me).
Oh, fair points!
Links Awakening was particularly good.
I wanted to be rewarded with secret items and sidequests, but all we got were a few randomly dotted holes with chests of 20Rupees in them.
Be fair though, there was a fair number of nicely done heartpiece puzzles, and there was more minigames then TWW or Ocaria.
Miyamoto or someone discused this once actualy, its an interesting problem; People like exploring and you need stuff for them to find when they explore.
But the more you put towards the optional bits to find, the less goes in the main game.
Finding the right balance is tricky.
I think the problem with TP wasnt so much the lack of stuff in the landscape, but how it was framed. Having heartpieces or a minigames is fine by me, but they could have been arranged nicer.
If they had a more populated landscape (ie, more characters dotted about), the minigames they had would have felt worth more.
Along similiar lines Hyrule town should have had more \"\"pointless\"\" people to talk too. Just giving the population wondering about random lines would have done it. ToS did this well. (but unlike, TP, that game had horrible robotic animation for most of the ncps)
( Edited 13.06.2009 18:53 by Darkflame )
Darkflame said:
You dont need much of a story, but a light story can add so much.
Especialy when people under Nintendos command have a lot of wit. I\'d love to see the team that did SuperStarSaga write a story for MarioGalaxy2, for example.
Miyamoto or someone discused this once actualy, its an interesting problem; People like exploring and you need stuff for them to find when they explore.
But the more you put towards the optional bits to find, the less goes in the main game.
Finding the right balance is tricky.
If they had a more populated landscape (ie, more characters dotted about), the minigames they had would have felt worth more.Along similiar lines Hyrule town should have had more \"\"pointless\"\" people to talk too. Just giving the population wondering about random lines would have done it. ToS did this well. (but unlike, TP, that game had horrible robotic animation for most of the ncps)
PS. Why the hell have all my posts been poison mushroom\'d? If you want to say something then just say it, otherwise I get the impression I\'ve done something wrong.
( Edited 13.06.2009 19:13 by SuperLink )
SuperLink said:
Why the hell have all my posts been poison mushroom'd? If you want to say something then just say it, otherwise I get the impression I've done something wrong.
No they aren't.
Bart.... said:
No they aren't.
And I see nega'd posts a lot more often than I see plus'd posts.
Yeah I don't like the shroom system much. Just give a star if you really like the post.
But I see 1up shrooms more often than poison ones though. I also don't like the herd mentality of people dishing out more shrooms when a post got 1 or 2 already.
At first, when I read that Miyamoto didn't want to broaden the story I thought that it wasn't a good idea, but then I thought, "When did a Mario game ever have a story?"
Besides the Mario RPG's and all that stuff, Mario has never had a real in-depth story with twists and turns. I got this idea from my friend and he said that it was Mario, he's a plumber from Brooklyn and he shoots fireballs at shit.... My friend was right. If you boggle down the stuff that makes Mario iconic with story then something is lost if you put too much onto the franchise.
Maybe- you're not supposed to make sense of Mario...thats what its been all about. I didn't care for the reason why Mario's world the way it was when I was a kid. I think I see Miyamoto's way of thinking now.
I really enjoyed Sunshine\'s story and characters. It wasn\'t too serious but enough to breathe life into Delfino Island. Without that, Sunshine would have felt dull and empty.
The 2D games don\'t really need one but I think the 3D games do, as it helps create a sense of acomplishment and progression. Make you feel like your hard work is actually achieving something other than just unlocking the next level.
That\'s kind of the reason that Mario 64 didn\'t catch my attention like Sunshine and Galaxy. (I played M64 after Sunshine.)
SuperLink said:
It\'s a shame this idea never became anything real. I hope the next 3D Mario (if not Galaxy 2) has CoOp... it would be amazing.
Video games are a different and unique medium. Unlike books and movies, video games do not need a story. Ultimately, games are about gameplay. If it's all about the story, then you basically have a long and interactive movie. You're playing just for the story. I'm not always against such ideas (I love Knights of the Old Republic for the story), and video games can tell a story in ways books and movies can't.
Pac-man and tetris are all about the gameplay. They can't have a story.
But the beauty of video games is that you can have a story to support the gameplay. Mario's is a light hearted good vs. evil and save the princess. That's all that is necessary for Mario games to work. Mario is all about the gameplay. If you add any more story, then it becomes story for story's sake, without actually making the gameplay more enjoyable.
I'm not against "story for story's sake" in a video game (I often really like the stories in video games), but I think I prefer my Mario without extra story.
Hope I made sense.
Nintendo seems to be picking up speed again.
I should've realized this back when they announced these things but it just hit me that they're going back to their roots some for their main games that aren't for the casual crowd.
And then next year's E3 is bound to be bursting with information about Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Zelda and Other M plus some more new games.
[Maybe next year we'll finally hear about Pikmin 3 and that Kirby game..]
I think everybody is mis-interpreting Miyamoto\'s words here. Here, let me quote it for reference:
\"The team have been focusing on gameplay/control elements, as opposed to visuals/story - and didn\'t want to waste efforts creating a trailer for E3 too soon.\"
It says the team have been focusing on gameplay/control elements as opposed to visuals/story. What that means is, that currently, the team is trying to nail down the controls first, since it will be utilizing MotionPlus.
That doesn\'t mean they arent going to focus on visuals or a story, it just means that, so far, they have been focusing their attention on the controls- hence nothing to show at E3 except artwork.
I hope I helped relieve some people.
Edit:
As for a story to Mario, since when does a platforming Mario game need a deep, engaging story? Save that for the RPG style Marios.
I am calling it now: nothing will change with Mario Galaxy 2. It will still have a simple story that\'s just enough to drive you forward, but not so much to take away from the fun of playing the game. I am also predicting a few sprinkles of \"story\" to expand what was touched on in the first MG.
( Edited 13.06.2009 22:35 by TruLink )