News: Zelda: Skyward Sword Comes Before Ocarina of Time Page 1

PMD 22.07.2010#1

OoT is generally regarded as the first one because of various characters and items in it. However, no one knows for sure.

Perhaps Ganondorf is not even in Skyward Sword, though he very may well be, if Ganon is just a personification of evil. Either way, it doesn't matter what the story contains, since this game looks to be offering a lot of gameplay improvements.

JoshSL 22.07.2010#2

PMD said:
Perhaps Ganondorf is not even in Skyward Sword, though he very may well be, if Ganon is just a personification of evil.

I think it's impossible for Ganon to be in SS. According to OoT he grew up within the lifetime of many OoT characters (like the king for example), and Nabooru knew him before everything started going to shit.

This would mean that OoT was Ganon's very first act of evil. If SS is set before OoT (and it is), then there will probably be another villain, but hopefully a good one!

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King K Rule (guest) 24.07.2010#3

Theres 100 Links running around Hyrule. Theres not one Link theres a timeline of them doing different things and killing Gannon every time. Thats what it is.

Darkflame 24.07.2010#4

Eiji Aonuma is probably trying to put them in some sort of order. Miyamoto meanwhile is just happy with them anywhere. Losely overlapping storys. Legends, if you like.

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JoshSL 24.07.2010#5

Darkflame said:
Eiji Aonuma is probably trying to put them in some sort of order. Miyamoto meanwhile is just happy with them anywhere. Losely overlapping storys. Legends, if you like.

I think both Aonuma and Miyamoto work on the timeline. This document full of Timeline details has been mentioned before in interviews with them.

So it seems Miyamoto isn't completely anti-story when it comes to Zelda atleast. However I think Miyamoto is the one who decided it remain confidential.

Considering the current director also worked on the Oracle games and Minish Cap, and Aonuma said the current director has access to the document, do you think he knows if Capcom's games are even on there?

( Edited 24.07.2010 13:49 by SuperLink )

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Phoenom 24.07.2010#6

Would be good to see a 3D debut from Vatti; let the game link to Minish Cap by explaining the 'Sword from the Sky' angle, and then a future Zelda explaining when the Four Sword was renamed the Master Sword.

Yup, I've been swotting up on timeline speculation. Smilie

Edit; Dang, just realised Vatti was first established in MC. Okay then, the story of the Evil Spirit that was defeated and locked away into Majora's Mask.

( Edited 24.07.2010 18:52 by Phokamiden )

Magna (guest) 26.07.2010#7

It could be the one in MM but that's kind of an alternate world. I, myself, prefer it would be the previous owner of the Trident. In one of the games, it's mentioned that Ganondorf stole it from a temple where it was sealed, pertaining to evil king.

oil* (guest) 26.07.2010#8

Fuck Ganon and screw that idiot Miyamoto. A preschopl kid could be moar inventive *roll*

crackedthesky 27.07.2010#9

I guess this means that theory that all cel-shaded Zeldas are part of one timeline and all non-cel-shaded ones are part of another is out the window.

SuperLink said:
PMD said:
Perhaps Ganondorf is not even in Skyward Sword, though he very may well be, if Ganon is just a personification of evil.

I think it's impossible for Ganon to be in SS. According to OoT he grew up within the lifetime of many OoT characters (like the king for example), and Nabooru knew him before everything started going to shit.
This would mean that OoT was Ganon's very first act of evil. If SS is set before OoT (and it is), then there will probably be another villain, but hopefully a good one!

Not if each Zelda game involves a completely different set of characters. It could be a different Ganon.

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JoshSL 27.07.2010#10

justonesp00lturn said:
I guess this means that theory that all cel-shaded Zeldas are part of one timeline and all non-cel-shaded ones are part of another is out the window.

No I wouldn't say that's 100%, it's likely, but we can't say for sure.

Not if each Zelda game involves a completely different set of characters. It could be a different Ganon.

Unlike the other cast members, Ganon is different. Every Ganon from every Zelda game so far has been the same person. A male is born to the Gerudo tribe every 100 years, so if SS' villain is like a "previous" Ganon, then he would need to be completely out of the picture by the end of SS.

I don't think that's very unlikely or even a good idea, plotwise.

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crackedthesky 28.07.2010#11

SuperLink said:
justonesp00lturn said:
I guess this means that theory that all cel-shaded Zeldas are part of one timeline and all non-cel-shaded ones are part of another is out the window.

No I wouldn't say that's 100%, it's likely, but we can't say for sure.
Not if each Zelda game involves a completely different set of characters. It could be a different Ganon.

Unlike the other cast members, Ganon is different. Every Ganon from every Zelda game so far has been the same person. A male is born to the Gerudo tribe every 100 years, so if SS' villain is like a "previous" Ganon, then he would need to be completely out of the picture by the end of SS.
I don't think that's very unlikely or even a good idea, plotwise.

That can't be true. Ganon is given multiple backstories throughout the series, some incompatible with each other (OoT and FSA, for instance.) He also very clearly dies at the end of Twilight Princess, but I doubt that will be the last game to take place in the series.

In any case, there would at the very least have to be two separate Ganons, because there are two separate timelines.

It seems far more realistic that there's more than one Ganon than that there's one who doesn't age, has a different backstory every time he's seen, never learns from his mistakes, dies sometimes, gets locked permanently in many different realms but somehow always finds a way out, etc.

I think probably the most realistic idea is that there's one Ganon, but multiple Ganondorfs; thus explaining the deaths and multiple backstories, but also why Ganon seems to have knowledge of events of other games.

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JoshSL 28.07.2010#12

justonesp00lturn said:

That can't be true. Ganon is given multiple backstories throughout the series, some incompatible with each other (OoT and FSA, for instance.) He also very clearly dies at the end of Twilight Princess, but I doubt that will be the last game to take place in the series.

FSA is the only instance in which Ganon is given an alternate backstory. Plus, he appears to die at the end of Twilight Princess, yet there are many games where this appears to happen. In any case he is continuously revived and the only mention of his birth is in OoT and FSA.

So even if he were to die in TP, it could very easily be followed by LttP or OoA/OoS

In any case, there would at the very least have to be two separate Ganons, because there are two separate timelines.

Yes, at the end of OoT the only major character that doesn't end up in both timelines is Link.

It seems far more realistic that there's more than one Ganon than that there's one who doesn't age, has a different backstory every time he's seen, never learns from his mistakes, dies sometimes, gets locked permanently in many different realms but somehow always finds a way out, etc.
I think probably the most realistic idea is that there's one Ganon, but multiple Ganondorfs; thus explaining the deaths and multiple backstories, but also why Ganon seems to have knowledge of events of other games.

Ganon has gained the power of the gods on multiple occasions and become timeless, even degraded to a mindless beast at parts that fans assume are later on in the series.

We know from ingame text that Ganon is constantly revived/freed from his prisons.

All of Ganon's appearances throughout the series:
Zelda 1: Little to no backstory anyway
Zelda 2: Ganon's minions attempt to resurrect him after Zelda 1
LttP: Ganon is trying to resurrect himself through Agahnim
Link's Awakening: Ganon is a nightmare at best
Ocarina of Time: Ganondorf's backstory
Oracle of Ages/Seasons: Ganon is revived by Koume and Kotake
Wind Waker: Ganon escapes the sacred realm after OoT
Twilight Princess: Ganon is banished to the Twilight Realm where he manupulates Zant after OoT
Four Swords Adventures: The only part in the series that doesn't make sense when it comes to Ganon

I honestly don't know how FSA's backstory could be explained. It could be that the FS arc is set in a further alternate timeline, or it could have been an oversight in writing.

However, while the writers make it quite clear that Link and Zelda are constantly meeting for the first time and therefore different people, Ganon has this omniscience about him and he continuously tries to take over Hyrule as the same entity. There is a Ganon in each timeline but ultimately this is because they are both the same person from OoT.

In any case, for SS to be before OoT means that SS either won't have Ganon, or will have a previous gerudo king out of the picture by the end of the game. Keep in mind that during Ocarina of Time, the royal family has complete trust in Ganon, as he is an ambassador for his country.

This would be heavily influenced by legends of "previous Ganons", especially in a series where legend is so strong.

( Edited 27.07.2010 20:01 by SuperLink )

Edit this post:

[quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] 
That can't be true. Ganon is given multiple backstories throughout the series, some incompatible with each other (OoT and FSA, for instance.) He also very clearly dies at the end of Twilight Princess, but I doubt that will be the last game to take place in the series.[/quote]
FSA is the only instance in which Ganon is given an alternate backstory. Plus, he [i]appears[/i] to die at the end of Twilight Princess, yet there are many games where this appears to happen. In any case he is continuously revived and the only mention of his birth is in OoT and FSA.

So even if he were to die in TP, it could very easily be followed by LttP or OoA/OoS

[quote]In any case, there would at the very least have to be two separate Ganons, because there are two separate timelines.[/quote]
Yes, at the end of OoT the only major character that doesn't end up in both timelines is Link.

[quote]It seems far more realistic that there's more than one Ganon than that there's one who doesn't age, has a different backstory every time he's seen, never learns from his mistakes, dies sometimes, gets locked permanently in many different realms but somehow always finds a way out, etc.

I think probably the most realistic idea is that there's one Ganon, but multiple Ganondorfs; thus explaining the deaths and multiple backstories, but also why Ganon seems to have knowledge of events of other games.[/quote]
Ganon has gained the power of the gods on multiple occasions and become timeless, even degraded to a mindless beast at parts that fans assume are later on in the series.

We know from ingame text that Ganon is constantly revived/freed from his prisons.

All of Ganon's appearances throughout the series:
Zelda 1: Little to no backstory anyway
Zelda 2: Ganon's minions attempt to resurrect him after Zelda 1
LttP: Ganon is trying to resurrect himself through Agahnim
Link's Awakening: Ganon is a nightmare at best
Ocarina of Time: Ganondorf's backstory
Oracle of Ages/Seasons: Ganon is revived by Koume and Kotake
Wind Waker: Ganon escapes the sacred realm after OoT
Twilight Princess: Ganon is banished to the Twilight Realm where he manupulates Zant after OoT
Four Swords Adventures: The only part in the series that doesn't make sense when it comes to Ganon

I honestly don't know how FSA's backstory could be explained. It could be that the FS arc is set in a further alternate timeline, or it could have been an oversight in writing.

However, while the writers make it quite clear that Link and Zelda are constantly meeting for the first time and therefore different people, Ganon has this omniscience about him and he continuously tries to take over Hyrule as the same entity. There is a Ganon in each timeline but ultimately this is because they are both the same person from OoT.

In any case, for SS to be before OoT means that SS either won't have Ganon, or will have a previous gerudo king out of the picture by the end of the game. Keep in mind that during Ocarina of Time, [b]the royal family has complete trust in Ganon[/b], as he is an ambassador for his country.

This would be heavily influenced by legends of "previous Ganons", especially in a series where legend is so strong.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

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crackedthesky 28.07.2010#13

SuperLink said:
justonesp00lturn said:

That can't be true. Ganon is given multiple backstories throughout the series, some incompatible with each other (OoT and FSA, for instance.) He also very clearly dies at the end of Twilight Princess, but I doubt that will be the last game to take place in the series.

FSA is the only instance in which Ganon is given an alternate backstory. Plus, he appears to die at the end of Twilight Princess, yet there are many games where this appears to happen. In any case he is continuously revived and the only mention of his birth is in OoT and FSA.
So even if he were to die in TP, it could very easily be followed by LttP or OoA/OoS
In any case, there would at the very least have to be two separate Ganons, because there are two separate timelines.

Yes, at the end of OoT the only major character that doesn't end up in both timelines is Link.
It seems far more realistic that there's more than one Ganon than that there's one who doesn't age, has a different backstory every time he's seen, never learns from his mistakes, dies sometimes, gets locked permanently in many different realms but somehow always finds a way out, etc.
I think probably the most realistic idea is that there's one Ganon, but multiple Ganondorfs; thus explaining the deaths and multiple backstories, but also why Ganon seems to have knowledge of events of other games.

Ganon has gained the power of the gods on multiple occasions and become timeless, even degraded to a mindless beast at parts that fans assume are later on in the series.
We know from ingame text that Ganon is constantly revived/freed from his prisons.
All of Ganon's appearances throughout the series:
Zelda 1: Little to no backstory anyway
Zelda 2: Ganon's minions attempt to resurrect him after Zelda 1
LttP: Ganon is trying to resurrect himself through Agahnim
Link's Awakening: Ganon is a nightmare at best
Ocarina of Time: Ganondorf's backstory
Oracle of Ages/Seasons: Ganon is revived by Koume and Kotake
Wind Waker: Ganon escapes the sacred realm after OoT
Twilight Princess: Ganon is banished to the Twilight Realm where he manupulates Zant after OoT
Four Swords Adventures: The only part in the series that doesn't make sense when it comes to Ganon
I honestly don't know how FSA's backstory could be explained. It could be that the FS arc is set in a further alternate timeline, or it could have been an oversight in writing.
However, while the writers make it quite clear that Link and Zelda are constantly meeting for the first time and therefore different people, Ganon has this omniscience about him and he continuously tries to take over Hyrule as the same entity. There is a Ganon in each timeline but ultimately this is because they are both the same person from OoT.
In any case, for SS to be before OoT means that SS either won't have Ganon, or will have a previous gerudo king out of the picture by the end of the game. Keep in mind that during Ocarina of Time, the royal family has complete trust in Ganon, as he is an ambassador for his country.
This would be heavily influenced by legends of "previous Ganons", especially in a series where legend is so strong.

I'll still subscribe to the idea of multiple Ganondorfs, at least. After all, half the time Ganon is around, there was no Ganondorf at all...

Skyward Sword may not even take place in Hyrule at all. There's Skyloft, and then there's an evil land below. One of them may eventually become Hyrule, but the way it sounds so far, it sounds like the game pre-dates Hyrule.

Makes you wonder if or how Princess Zelda will be involved...

I think it'd be interesting if, sometime in the future, there was a Zelda game where instead of flipping between a light world and a dark world, you flip through timelines, essentially playing as two Links. The possibilities are endless; there could be two of every character (think along the lines of playing Ocarina and Majora's Mask... but as one game, flipping between the two worlds,) and characters might be good in one world but bad in another, etc.; with Link eventually having to re-join the two timelines.

The only way it could be more awesome, would be if Link used a phone booth to traverse the two timelines Smilie

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b] [quote][b]justonesp00lturn said:[/b] 
That can't be true. Ganon is given multiple backstories throughout the series, some incompatible with each other (OoT and FSA, for instance.) He also very clearly dies at the end of Twilight Princess, but I doubt that will be the last game to take place in the series.[/quote]
FSA is the only instance in which Ganon is given an alternate backstory. Plus, he [i]appears[/i] to die at the end of Twilight Princess, yet there are many games where this appears to happen. In any case he is continuously revived and the only mention of his birth is in OoT and FSA.