News: Zelda: Ocarina of Time Originally Like Mario 64 Page 1

Faust_D 17.06.2011#1

Okay, sorry, but.. What does this DICK have against story?! For fudge's sake, Zelda is a series that would BENEFIT GREATLY from an overarching story weaving all the games' individual stories together, etc. UGH.

For Mario I can understand not having too much of a story, but Zelda? Shigga, please -_-

Why not give us both story AND new gameplay, cockatrice-face?

~Getting on C3's massive tits since 2K5.~

Martin_ 17.06.2011#2

The Legend of Zelda has no storyline, so yeah it doesn't surprise me at all that he wants you people to stop harping on about "the timeline", and "the secret locked away document that details everything". I've been saying Zelda has no story for a fair few years now. Nobody wanted to know. Now Miyamoto himself has vindicated me!

Magna (guest) 17.06.2011#3

Actually, Ingo setting fire to Lon Lon Ranch would have been awesome. IMO, it would add to the story, because, though I like the gameplay aspect of LoZ, I actually play it much more because of the potential of the story. To bad Myamoto disagrees...

PMD 17.06.2011#4

I play games to make my own story, not to listen to others tell a story. If a game has a story, I usually ignore it or forget it anyway.

Nintendo games usually never have a story, so if you play them for that, you are just making yourself miserable.

Darkflame 17.06.2011#5

I dont care for inter-game storys much, but certainly I want good storys within the games.

Fortuntely, Majoras Mask and TP stepped hugely in the right direction in terms of more developed storys/character dialogues and general direction.

Lets not go back....

http://www.fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
Last update; Mice,Plumbers,Animatronics and Airbenders. We also have the socials; Facebook & G+.

Azuardo 17.06.2011#6

I play for both gameplay and story. While I agree Zelda is more about the gameplay - a heavy focus on dungeons and puzzles being the prime example - I think the series benefits greatly from story too. But normally only when it isn't about Ganon. Take Majora's Mask. It's a pretty simple story really, but it's about the messages being conveyed to the player more than anything. The Terminans' fears of the world ending, accepting death and fighting on are what really make the player feel something. Well-written dialogue and expressive characters help to achieve this. And that's what Zelda does very well.

It's not epic lengthy in-depth Final Fantasy-esque stories we're asking for here. But a half-decent plot that is portrayed through characters and dialogue helps make the series fun. And it's what Zelda's been doing for so long. Doesn't really need to change. But if it does, as long as the gameplay remains good, I won't mind.

( Edited 17.06.2011 21:15 by Azuardo )

Marzeee 17.06.2011#7

How have Zelda games not got a story? If they didn't have a story there would be no game (even if it's a simple one).

Do people just play through games mindlessly not thinking about anything? If so, no wonder people found Galaxy 2 better than the first...

( Edited 17.06.2011 21:23 by Marzy )

WP-Final 17.06.2011#8

Well, to be fair on Galaxy 2, it's story was on par with Galaxy 1 in that it was pretty non-existent. Smilie

Zelda games have a nice story (my fave being Wind Waker). Does Miyamoto really think that Ocarina would have been as loved had it not had a story?

Darkflame 17.06.2011#9

Azuardo said:
I play for both gameplay and story. While I agree Zelda is more about the gameplay - a heavy focus on dungeons and puzzles being the prime example - I think the series benefits greatly from story too. But normally only when it isn't about Ganon. Take Majora's Mask. It's a pretty simple story really, but it's about the messages being conveyed to the player more than anything.

Very well put.
Its the "little" storys that make the fantastic atmosphere of the best Zeldas, rather then the big things.

http://www.fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
Last update; Mice,Plumbers,Animatronics and Airbenders. We also have the socials; Facebook & G+.

EvonM 17.06.2011#10

I don't get it. If it wasn't for the stories in these games I might not be playing them... Shiggy is a loony Smilie

Raff 17.06.2011#11

I think some of you guys are taking the story comments the wrong way. The stories in Zelda games have always been built around everything else. Miyamoto is just saying this stuff to respond in the nicest way possible to the nutcases who take the story too seriously and read all kinds of crap into it, who watch too much anime and never read an adult book in their lives.

It's ok to like the stories. They're perfectly charming, whacky and sufficiently creepy at times to be respected as good children's stories that can be enjoyed by anyone as part of the overall game experience. There are however very vocal people who take it all too far.

( Edited 18.06.2011 00:01 by Raff )

It's going to be shit and you jolly well know it.

Red XIII 18.06.2011#12

I do find it really interesting that Miyamoto basically said that people should stop fussing about the timeline.

It's one of my favorite things to discuss... and it really enriches the series for me. Even though it wasn't originally intended, they could at least play off of the mass appeal of it. Which, they have and did, but I guess Shiggy wasn't a fan of it. :/

Like video game music?!
>Do a Barrel Roll!<

meeto_0 18.06.2011#13

Mario doesnt need a story. Infact the opening scenes in both are just dull filler.

I cant quite work out why but a game like zeldas has to have a story. It would be bizaare just to jump from dungeon to dungeon with no reason to it.

Miyamoto should improve on his weaknesses instead of hiding from them. Nintendo story telling is pretty weak and loads of devs have always been ahead on this front.

If he wants to focus on gameplay more perhaps he should do what he does with mario and change it up more. The gameplay is a carbon copy of OOT in all recent additions. Same towns folk, same attack pattern in boss fights, same dark/light theme. Same musical interaction:howling, stick, ocarina.

Skysword looks to change up with the fighting but light and dark themes look to reoccur.

( Edited 18.06.2011 09:41 by meeto_0 )

jb 18.06.2011#14

Has anyone read the Zelda manga - I have a few. OOT & Majora are told SO well that I can imagine if Nintendo actually focused a bit more on, it would work so well to add that extra slice of quality to compliment the gameplay - not over the top or complicated, but a bit more varied and less linear.

Characters really need more script or personality, so they at least react differently to things you do and say. I'd love a zelda with more character-driven side quests and more substantial relationships to form within them.

I think it's Nintendo's fault that fans try to fuss over the timeline - why? Because they rehashed the same story multiple times with Ganon entering, exiting the spirit realm so fans tried to piece this together.

Different baddie, different world could have helped Zelda games become more independent from each other.

Still though, for the games themselves I think the story needs a shake-up, the core aspects anyway. It's been way too linear in recent entries - collect 3 things, some shit goes down, collect more things, fight ganondorf.

A Link to the Past, OOT, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess

4 main entries, same setup, practically same-ish story too.

Miyamoto stresses on characters, but really, who is that memorable? From OoT I remember the fishing man, talon, malon, ingo, bug boy, cucoo lady etc but despite that there really wasn't a great deal of story or involvement with any of these guys. Just a few memorable lines or tasks here and there.

There needs to be movement, characters actually doing stuff rather than conveniently waiting in the same place to tell you that "oh no that dust cloud from the mountains has been bad for my asthma. Maybe there's a temple over there you can do shit in".

Perfect Zelda for me:

2 or 3 main towns with lots of NPCs who you interact with and need to get involved with as part of the main story. Useful side quests between characters perhaps.

Some of these NPCs lead you into dungeon-esque situations you'll need to complete.

There would still be an overall goal, but less Ganondorf and more random and unexpected. TP was so going that way, I LOVED when Zant just randomly appeared, that was the way it should be done. But then it goes all Ganondorf, sages and bo-ore-ring.

Link's Awakening was one of my faves simply because it was set away from Hyrule, good characters, neat side quest and some relationships forming around the island. Great fun and guess what - NO INVOLVEMENT from Shigeru boring arse Miyamoto.

Shigeru Miyamoto, who served as the producer of Link's Awakening, did not provide creative input to the staff member.

There we go, he's the problem.

Edit this post:

Has anyone read the Zelda manga - I have a few. OOT & Majora are told SO well that I can imagine if Nintendo actually focused a bit more on, it would work so well to add that extra slice of quality to compliment the gameplay - not over the top or complicated, but a bit more varied and less linear.

Characters really need more script or personality, so they at least react differently to things you do and say. I'd love a zelda with more character-driven side quests and more substantial relationships to form within them.

I think it's Nintendo's fault that fans try to fuss over the timeline - why? Because they rehashed the same story multiple times with Ganon entering, exiting the spirit realm so fans tried to piece this together.

Different baddie, different world could have helped Zelda games become more independent from each other.

Still though, for the games themselves I think the story needs a shake-up, the core aspects anyway. It's been way too linear in recent entries - collect 3 things, some shit goes down, collect more things, fight ganondorf.

A Link to the Past, OOT, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess

4 main entries, same setup, practically same-ish story too.

Miyamoto stresses on characters, but really, who is [i]that[/i] memorable? From OoT I remember the fishing man, talon, malon, ingo, bug boy, cucoo lady etc but despite that there really wasn't a great deal of story or involvement with any of these guys. Just a few memorable lines or tasks here and there.

There needs to be movement, characters actually doing stuff rather than conveniently waiting in the same place to tell you that "oh no that <b>dust cloud from the mountains</b> has been bad for my asthma. Maybe there's a temple over there you can do shit in".

Perfect Zelda for me:

2 or 3 main towns with lots of NPCs who you interact with and need to get involved with as part of the main story. Useful side quests between characters perhaps.

Some of these NPCs lead you into dungeon-esque situations you'll need to complete.

There would still be an overall goal, but less Ganondorf and more random and unexpected. TP was so going that way, I LOVED when Zant just randomly appeared, that was the way it should be done. But then it goes all Ganondorf, sages and bo-ore-ring.

Link's Awakening was one of my faves simply because it was set away from Hyrule, good characters, neat side quest and some relationships forming around the island. Great fun and guess what - NO INVOLVEMENT from Shigeru boring arse Miyamoto.

[i]Shigeru Miyamoto, who served as the producer of Link's Awakening, did not provide creative input to the staff member[/i].

There we go, he's the problem.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

Cubed3 Admin/Founder & Designer

Azuardo 18.06.2011#15

Red, meeto, jb: agree with all of you.

Like I said, I play games for both story and gameplay. I can't help it, but story is a big part of what makes a game for me nowadays, mainly because of the types of games I've grown up on - RPGs like Final Fantasy and Zelda.

I remember years ago how much I would read into the timeline and found it fascinating. I wasn't one to figure it out myself, but read in-depth discussions online and really enjoyed knowing which Zelda went where.

jb said:
Characters really need more script or personality, so they at least react differently to things you do and say. I'd love a zelda with more character-driven side quests and more substantial relationships to form within them.
Different baddie, different world could have helped Zelda games become more independent from each other.
Still though, for the games themselves I think the story needs a shake-up, the core aspects anyway. It's been way too linear in recent entries - collect 3 things, some shit goes down, collect more things, fight ganondorf.

Agree. I've been saying the same thing for so damn long; I think most people have tbh. Majora's Mask for me, is where Zelda really began to set itself a new standard. Mostly character interaction, forming relationships, exploration and sidequests. In the past, I've read articles on Majora's Mask, looking into the hidden messages being told and things like Nintendo hinting through Romani and Cremia sidequests that they intended for Malon in OOT to be Link's true love. I know they like to leave things up to the player's imagination for a lot of things, but I personally don't see why they couldn't just delve deeper into these things. Perhaps give the player the option of creating a deeper relationship with Malon, Saria, Zelda, Ruto, etc and letting the player make a decision on which to "ride off into the sunset" with (Nintendo created an alt ending to OOT where Malon would ride off with Link into the sunset).

This is just me wanting the options to expand though. Because you're right; as it is, it's the same old shit every time. And it's really only when we're not in Hyrule or there's no Ganondorf that things feel fresh and enjoyable now. Zelda needs to change for the good of the series.

Twilight Princess in Japan sold crap and Nintendo were confused as to why. Maybe the Japanese have had enough more than we have and knew it was the same old shit with the same old story. I'm hoping Nintendo have acknowledged this greatly and hope to really change things in Skyward Sword. Because as it is, the series is growing tired and it can't survive on just rehashing the same formula forever and ever.

This is perhaps another reason why Capcom should come back and give us a 3D Zelda that expands on the fantastic Oracles games: one of the pinnacles of the series.

Edit this post:

Red, meeto, jb: agree with all of you.

Like I said, I play games for both story and gameplay. I can't help it, but story is a big part of what makes a game for me nowadays, mainly because of the types of games I've grown up on - RPGs like Final Fantasy and Zelda.

I remember years ago how much I would read into the timeline and found it fascinating. I wasn't one to figure it out myself, but read in-depth discussions online and really enjoyed knowing which Zelda went where.

[quote][b]jb said:[/b]
Characters really need more script or personality, so they at least react differently to things you do and say. I'd love a zelda with more character-driven side quests and more substantial relationships to form within them.

Different baddie, different world could have helped Zelda games become more independent from each other.

Still though, for the games themselves I think the story needs a shake-up, the core aspects anyway. It's been way too linear in recent entries - collect 3 things, some shit goes down, collect more things, fight ganondorf.[/quote]
Agree. I've been saying the same thing for so damn long; I think most people have tbh. Majora's Mask for me, is where Zelda really began to set itself a new standard. Mostly character interaction, forming relationships, exploration and sidequests. In the past, I've read articles on Majora's Mask, looking into the hidden messages being told and things like Nintendo hinting through Romani and Cremia sidequests that they intended for Malon in OOT to be Link's true love. I know they like to leave things up to the player's imagination for a lot of things, but I personally don't see why they couldn't just delve deeper into these things. Perhaps give the player the option of creating a deeper relationship with Malon, Saria, Zelda, Ruto, etc and letting the player make a decision on which to "ride off into the sunset" with (Nintendo created an alt ending to OOT where Malon would ride off with Link into the sunset).

This is just me wanting the options to expand though. Because you're right; as it is, it's the same old shit every time. And it's really only when we're not in Hyrule or there's no Ganondorf that things feel fresh and enjoyable now. Zelda needs to change for the good of the series.

Twilight Princess in Japan sold crap and Nintendo were confused as to why. Maybe the Japanese have had enough more than we have and knew it was the same old shit with the same old story. I'm hoping Nintendo have acknowledged this greatly and hope to really change things in Skyward Sword. Because as it is, the series is growing tired and it can't survive on just rehashing the same formula forever and ever.

This is perhaps another reason why Capcom should come back and give us a 3D Zelda that expands on the fantastic Oracles games: one of the pinnacles of the series.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

SirLink 18.06.2011#16

Azuardo said:

Twilight Princess in Japan sold crap and Nintendo were confused as to why. Maybe the Japanese have had enough more than we have and knew it was the same old shit with the same old story.

I was always under the impression that Twilight Princess sold crap in Japan because Nintendo tried to cater to their Western fans with its artstyle and it just wasn't well received in Japan. I'm pretty sure that someone from Nintendo has mentioned that in the past; could have been Miyamoto or Iwata. It should also be noted that Zelda has never been as big in Japan as it is in the West. Interestingly, The Wind Waker was one of the top-selling Gamecube games in Japan which would support the argument about the reception of the artstyles.

I'm not going to add anything to the "same old shit" discussion going on in here because Skyward Sword looks like it's going to be everything I personally ever wanted in a Zelda game such as 1:1 swordplay, orchestrated music, mixed up formula with some sorts of backtracking and upgradeable items and equipment. The artstyle perfectly fits my view of a Zelda game as well.

If Skyward Sword doesn't deliver then sure, count me in as well but for now I'm just staying optimistic while waiting, what feels like an eternity, for Skyward Sword.

( Edited 18.06.2011 11:48 by SirLink )

Twitter | Backloggery

Darkflame 18.06.2011#17

I dont see why one region should make much difference.
Twlight Princess, overall, is one of the best saleing Zeldas of all time.

Remember; Galaxy and Metroid Prime also sold pretty poor in Japan. Sometimes their tastes just dont match ours.

That said, yes, it would certainly have been better if it was Zant all the way and not a hint of Gannon.
Hell, I thought at one point it was going to be the Majoras Mask moon behind it all Smilie

As for what made majoras mask brillent for me, it was the fact that every character had a little timeline you could interfer with. (like nicking someones room at the inn).
I dont mind liner storys, and Im not keen on multiple endings, "chooseing your love" or whatnot - but I do want nice interaction with the characters of the world.

http://www.fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
Last update; Mice,Plumbers,Animatronics and Airbenders. We also have the socials; Facebook & G+.