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Feature | INSiGHT: Where is Nintendo's Wii U in the UK?

Nintendo is storming ahead with massive sales of the portable 3DS in its homeland of Japan, whilst fortunes for the handheld successor to the Nintendo DS line are slightly improving as time marches on. The worrying fact as of now, however, is the state of Wii U, especially here in the UK. With mixed messages about stock levels, confusing advertising, and what is portrayed by some as a weak line-up, tied with poor support from Nintendo itself, Wii U has not just stuttered onto the market, but is proving to be a major embarrassment when compared to how Wii launched.
Image for Feature | INSiGHT: Where is Nintendo
All those years ago when Wii hit the streets, people scoffed at it being two GameCube systems stuck together, laughed at the humorous name, and basically felt it was nothing more than a crazy Japanese fad that would not really take off after its first Christmas on the market. The same sort of negativity was levelled at Pokémon, though, and we all know how that one turned out!
 
The problem now, however, is that Nintendo not only battered the charts with an onslaught of software to support the ageing technology enough to draw in a whole new audience, but set itself up for a potential fall. That fall almost came when the Nintendo 3DS bullishly landed on store shelves in March 2011 with an overly high price-tag and poor launch line-up that turned consumers away rapidly, yet the wrongs were quickly righted with a one-two punch of a hefty price drop, followed by the quick release of big name games, such as Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7 and eventually the fast-tracked New Super Mario Bros. 2. That being said, how will the Wii U problem be overcome?

Image for Feature | INSiGHT: Where is Nintendo


Before an answer can even be conceived, the problem needs to be analysed slightly. Wii U arrived on UK shores on 30th November and fluttered onto the market with nary a whisper. Nintendo tried to cover this up by talking about low stock levels, but with numerous reports of people finding stock all over the country, picking up systems with the greatest of ease even on the first day, there has been some speculation about Nintendo basically trying to cover up a disastrous launch. How bad could it be, right? A quick look at the latest Chart Track UK listings paints the bleak picture for software, with only Nintendo Land making an appearance in the Top 40 Individual Charts at No.35, dropping a further eight places from the week prior and after a starting week of 26,000 sales units, it has now crawled to 45,000, with just 9,000 sales this week - inclusive of bundled sales - compared to the two week total of ~115,000 in Japan where it is not a pack-in. Yes, not even New Super Mario Bros. U managed to make the chart this week, despite it being the second biggest Wii U seller over the last seven days. That goes a long way to showing how little everything else is selling right now. For those interested in the Wii U Top 10 it continues with Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, Zombi U, Just Dance 4, Call of Duty: Black Ops II, Sports Connection, Batman: Arkham City - Armoured Edition, Rabbids Land and FIFA 13.

Image for Feature | INSiGHT: Where is Nintendo


It is certainly a strong looking Top 10, right? In terms of quality, yes it is. However, if it is looked at in a different way, the stark reality of how bad it is hits home. SEGA's racer, the third biggest selling Wii U game of the week, sold less than 3,104 copies. Just let that sink in for a moment. Look at FIFA 13 residing there at the bottom of the list, No.10, and read this interesting fact: both the Wii and PS Vita iterations of EA's massively popular football title sold more than 6,364 copies. Wii, a dying system, and PS Vita, a supposedly dead system, both saw their respective versions of FIFA 13 manage to sell enough to make them at least the third highest Wii U game of the week. FIFA 13 Wii U could easily have sold merely a few hundred copies over the week-long reporting period. Well, we actually know it sold more than 557 units, though, since that is how many copies of Assassin's Creed III managed to shift in the same time span, and that didn't even feature in the Wii U Top 10! Number hungry? How about this: Wii U's Call of Duty: Black Ops II sold less than 2,034 copies, compared to 118,000 on Xbox 360 (the biggest selling game of the week in the UK, followed by Just Dance 4 on Wii) and 81,378 on PlayStation 3 (the third best selling UK game of the week). Looking back at Sonic for a second, the figure may be low, but compared to other formats it is doing well since the game in general is selling poorly. On Wii U it sold just over 2,000 copies less than the PS3 edition (less than 5,296) and pretty much doubled the PSV version's sales (less than 1,461). Perhaps a sign of what appeals on the system early doors. Whatever the case, that Wii U Top 10 must be scary for Nintendo UK to see with the top selling game at around the 9,000 mark and the No.10 game being less than the known 2,034 figure for Call of Duty: Black Ops II and higher than the 557 number for Assassin's Creed III.

Image for Feature | INSiGHT: Where is Nintendo


Shockingly, it is not actually just the 'hardcore' UK that is struggling, with reports from people close to Cubed3 pointing out that there is surplus stock supplies in Spain and Netherlands, with not much interest in a machine that is priced higher than the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 with a lower range of software on offer this holiday period. Additionally, reports have revealed that many major retailers in Portugal have resorted to offering New Super Mario Bros. U for a mere extra €5 with both Wii U packs to try and create a spark. In France the console has sold approximately 65,000 after two weeks and in the UK it is at roughly 70,000 after three. In Germany, one of Nintendo's stronger markets, New Super Mario Bros. U dropped to No.31 in its third week on sale, whilst the only other games that charted in launch week - Zombi U, Assassin's Creed III, and Nintendo Land (in that order; No.65, No.70, No.74, respectively) - have been absent from the Top 100 for the past two weeks.
 
Anecdotally, what really does not help is that regular gamers are commenting on how expensive Wii U games are, with the likes of Zombi U being found in some places for around £50-£55. In the days where punters are searching high and low for bargains galore, the current pricing system isn't working for them, full stop. Many stores placing Wii and Wii U games together isn't exactly a big help either, but that is up to Nintendo to resolve in its educating of retailers, on top of the required consumer enlightenment via advertisements.

Image for Feature | INSiGHT: Where is Nintendo


Oh, and for anyone thinking the Wii U is not doing 'bad' for three weeks on the chart, just compare ~70,000 in that time to ~75,000 GameCube sales in two days. Puts it more into perspective, right?

Anyway, before wrapping up, here are some other numbers from various sources derived from extrapolation of system breakdowns given by The Guardian and interrogation of numbers revealed by Chart Track UK in the past few weeks. New Super Mario Bros. 2 sold more than 14,000 units, Moshi Monsters on DS and Skylanders Giants on Wii both sold more than 13,000 copies, Just Dance: Disney Party  on Wii, Mario Kart 7, Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask and Super Mario 3D Land on 3DS all sold more than 10,000 copies, Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games on Wii sold more than 8,500, whilst the Wii and 3DS iterations of LEGO The Lord of the Rings sold less than 8,401 and 2,965, respectively, and the 3DS version of Moshi Monsters: Moshlings Theme Park sold less than 4,383. All done!

What can Nintendo do to improve matters, though? With a new look team that is not managing Wii U anywhere near as well as the previous group did with Wii and DS - leading to barely any UK presence amongst people outside of the online scene - tied with a misguided advertising campaign that has left many still wondering if it is a new console, a remodel, or some sort of controller add-on, the situation is not good by any means. Will it take a drastic price-drop similar to the 3DS and a rushed bunch of hot titles? If sales prove strong enough in Japan and the US then possibly not, and the UK may be left to its own devices, which really does not exactly bode well for future Third Party support or the possibility of changing the consumer mindset further down the line.

However, is it too early in the day to be concerned with the dire first few weeks, or do readers also have anecdotal evidence of people not quite 'getting' what Wii U is all about?

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22.12.2012 20:10

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Kane (guest) 22.12.2012 20:36#1

A fantastic insight into how the system is performing across the channel. In France the Wii U is barely present in our shops, and my friends have no clue what it is, It is assumed that Wii U is just as if the balance board was to the Wii it is an accessory.

We have no advertisements in the newspapers, or on TV, online online banners on webshops. 

It is a combination of price and marketing for this Wii U slowing down so soon!

ElbowidoW (guest) 22.12.2012 20:56#2

Wii U's Call of Duty: Black Ops II sold less than 2,034 copies, compared to 118,000 on Xbox 360


Time to abandon ship. I feel sorry for that developer wasting their time and money...

Amlani (guest) 22.12.2012 21:37#3

What were games sales like during the launch month of the Wii?

It's a new system, I'd give it time to get on its legs. It was never going to be the phenomenon that was the Wii - that system brought a lot of excitement to the gaming scene and everyone understood the controller. Back then, a lot more people loved Nintendo, as well, coming off the back of the Gamecube, and went on to buy the next system. After that though Nintendo lost a chunk of their following and only die-hard fans seemed to stick with it and enjoy the system. Those people didn't seem to show much interest in the Wii U either. I think Nintendo need to do a bit of advertising and continue to make sure demo units are in stores and continue their tour showcasing the system. It's really one of those things were you need to try it to really understand just how good it is.

Once more fantastic new and original titles come,  think sales could quickly pick up, as well.


I'm one of the biggest nintendo fans out there but there's a host of issues. 
-New super mario bros, looks like a quick cash grab that looks strikingly similar to new super mario bros wii.
-Zombi U although very good from what I've played(a blend of Metroid Prime and Demon's Souls) received strangely low reviews and has the stigma of the original Red Steel.
-Nintendo Land looks like a mini game compilation at full price. 
-No Pikmin 3, granted its not a major franchise but its infinitely more interesting than NSMB 7 or Wii Play 2.
-The awfully slow loading times, theres no excuse for menus being even slower than the original Wii.
-Wii game/Virtual Console poorly integrated(being forced to use a wiimote and classic controller, to play emulated games is beyond silly)
-Price point is way to high at this point, they've chosen to use expensive memory for storage and cheaped out on the CPU which effectively counteracts any benefit to having that pricey memory.
-Launch games look worse than a 360 but the 360 costs a £100 less.


( Edited 22.12.2012 22:45 by JayUK )

Senior ModeratorStaff Member

PS3 was a huge embarassment when it came out, compared to the PS2 launch, and look where it is today. Granted PS3 started off with its predecessor having a very good reputation with gamers, whereas that's definitely not the case with Wii U, so it might be off worse than the PS3.

As long as it doesn't falter totally like the Gamecube did, I'm happy.

Kane (guest) said:
In France the Wii U is barely present in our shops...

...We have no advertisements in the newspapers, or on TV, online online banners on webshops.


Let's not exagerate things. I saw quite a few ads on TF1 and France 2, as well as banners on Amazon.fr.

It seems to me the real problem isn't so much lack of advertisement, although it could use more of it, but rather that they need to really emphasize the info that's going to attract the masses, starting with explaining better WHAT it is. I haven't seen a single Wii U ad truly showing the third part content that's likely to attract gamers, except for some very short Zombi U footage, showing asymmetric gameplay, and they didn't even tell what game it was from.

Back in the days of GameCube, there would be ads on TV showing several upcoming games, even a month or two before release, showing the likes of Resident Evil Zero, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine... all cool stuff. Nintendo Land doesn't have the oomph that Wii Sports had to attract the masses.

Where is that Sports game Wii U needs to really launch ?? We saw tech demos of Wii U baseball and Wii U golf, so now where did all of that go ?? And where are the first party gamer oriented games ?? Pikmin 3 still hasn't got a firm release date. NO release date for ANY of Nintendo's big franchises on the horizon, Pikmin 3 is the only one we know anything about, and we're almost a month after it launched here !!!

Nintendo... if the third party are going to let you down on this one as well, like they did at the start of the 3DS, you'd better move your ass and showmeyamoves and show what the system really is all about, better than what you did with yet another half assed 2D Mario which doesn't bring much new stuff when compared to other NSMBs, and a collection of mini games which, while it certainly is loads of fun to play once you actually try it, doesn't look like a lot of fun from afar and isn't likely to make consoles literally jump off store shelves into your customers' shooping carts.

Cubed3 Limited Staff :: Review and Feature Writer

They need to show Retro Studio's and Monolithsoft's new game, plus give Eternal Darkness to a new developer, one that isn't gonna sue people for their own incompetence. 

Plus a teaser trailer for Metroid, Zelda or Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles wouldn't hurt. Virtual Console support would also be nice. HD Re-release of Xenoblade and The Last Story couldn't hurt either even if its only a digital release. 

Staff Member

JayUK said:
I'm one of the biggest nintendo fans out there but there's a host of issues. 
-New super mario bros, looks like a quick cash grab that looks strikingly similar to new super mario bros wii.
-Zombi U although very good from what I've played(a blend of Metroid Prime and Demon's Souls) received strangely low reviews and has the stigma of the original Red Steel.
-Nintendo Land looks like a mini game compilation at full price. 
-No Pikmin 3, granted its not a major franchise but its infinitely more interesting than NSMB 7 or Wii Play 2.
-The awfully slow loading times, theres no excuse for menus being even slower than the original Wii.
-Wii game/Virtual Console poorly integrated(being forced to use a wiimote and classic controller, to play emulated games is beyond silly)
-Price point is way to high at this point, they've chosen to use expensive memory for storage and cheaped out on the CPU which effectively counteracts any benefit to having that pricey memory.
-Launch games look worse than a 360 but the 360 costs a £100 less.

-NSMB U could be seen as a quick cash-in, but it's clear that Nintendo have put a lot of effort into the game, even if it looks like NSMB Wii with HD graphics and the similar tunes.. it's still a ton of fun, from what I've heard and I'll be picking it up ASAP.
-Reviews don't determine whether a game is good or not and half the time reviewers throw together a half-assed review and compare the game they're reviewing to something like Call of Duty. Zombi U is a fantastic game for what it's supposed to be, a true survival horror game.
-I will agree with this point, Nintendo Land does look like a minigame compilation, but beneath the skin it is a really fleshed out experience with quite a bit of depth.
-Pikmin 3 is coming, if later than expected, so be it. Nintendo want to make it the best and not rush it out.
-The loading times are not nearly as bad as IGN made them out to be. After the 2nd update, the loading time seemed to decrease by a couple of seconds. (Or I'm just imagining things) Either way, Nintendo will address this issue and it's not uncommon for a new system to have a rocky start.
-Running Wii games and WiiWare/VC on the Wii U is exactly the same as running DS games and DSiWare on the 3DS. The only difference is that the Wii OS is emulated before loading the software. This is comparable to Windows XP Mode, which was available with some Windows 7 SKUs. Why recode everything, when you can simply just emulate and focus on new games?
-I personally don't think the price point is too high for a next generation system. They may have "cheaped" out on the CPU (which they didn't really), but they used a great GPU, which can take care of some of those processes usually handled by the CPU.
-Don't even try to play this card. Look at the launch games on the 360, they look like Xbox games. As with all systems, games start to look better and better as the time goes on. You can't expect a developer to make a game which looks 10x better than a 360 game, when they haven't even gotten to grips with the system yet.

People complain far too much and I think everyone will be surprised when Sony and Microsoft come out with their systems, that will cost around £500. (If they use the specs everyone wants them to use)

( Edited 23.12.2012 00:43 by Mush )

The launch line-up is worse than the 360's? Say what? Why is it that people complain on things they have no idea about?

Xenoblade HD remake? As much as I would love that I do not see the point. JRPG gams are not as big as they used to be (Like back in the SNES to PS1 to PS2 era). The costs would just be too much. The gaming world is changing.

I find it odd how people, even Nintendo fans, complain on everything Nintendo. I am not protecting them, since they have their flaws, but so does every company. People hail them even when they fail.

Oh and NSMBU has been said to be the new (finally a good use for that word hehe) Mario 3 or world. If that is bad then stop playing games!

There are no hardcore nor casual gamers, we are all simply just GAMERS

-New Super Mario Bros. just looks bland i'm sorry. I've got Super Mario World already, I played it 15 years ago, why I'd want to pay a kings ransom for a rerun with frankly a fugly artstyle is beyond me. The series is starting to become stale, it's nintendo's tony hawk.
-Nintendo obviously don't have titles ready to launch, so HD remakes would be a quick and easy way to attract people. The number of people posting 'why is this on wii?', on xenoblade videos is significant. These are the people nintendo should be trying to win back. The Wii music crowd are not gonna bail them out with a £250 price point. Its just not gonna happen. Also watch Xenoblade running at 1080p and the characters look somewhat human. Thats only if they do a quick and dirty HD treatment. Imagine xenoblade with a longer draw distance, no load times, a random number generator that's less of a jerk and the unused area added as a bonus.
-The load times and VC integration is an issue, at the moment its quicker and less hassle for me to turn on the wii and play a link to the past, than it is to play it on the Wii U. It shouldn't take me an extra 2 minutes + 2 extra menus + a change of controller, to play an emulated snes game. The whole point of transferring games is to reduce the hassle of having two consoles hooked up, at the moment the Wii U isn't doing that.
-Also the argument that these are launch games and developers are still getting used to the hardware would be more reassuring if people hadn't said the exact same thing at the Wii's launch.

I still dont see it reaching anywhere near Wii heights.

Id love to be wrong, but "screen in your hand" just doesnt have the same instant new appeal as the Wiimote and Nunchuck did.

It also still strikes me as a very lazy system. The "low spec" of the Wii never bothered me because eeverything else was new.
This time around half the controlers in use are identical with no improvements even in function or ergonomics, and the new controller isnt even a "best of", leaving out many improvements from past gens (analogue triggers, for example).

I'm sure Nintendo will still make kickarse games, but hardware wise it just isnt "wow".

The 3DS, on the other hand, is the opersite. It pretty much crams everything in and the kitchen sink.

Please give our little random review show a try;
http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html
We have special effects and umm...stuff...

Inconspicuous store presence and lack of stock in shops, particularly supermarkets, is the real problem. It's still the same with the 3DS, which often gets lumped in with the DS games. Nintendo UK have had a major staff overhaul in the last year or so, and the new people are failing to get the products noticed.

Kam (guest) 23.12.2012 12:39#12

No one ever mentions downloadable games. Nintendo are offering day 1 disc releases as downloadable games. I have only one WiiU disc, Nintendoland since it game with the console. I have ZombieU, Mario and Darksiders II all downloaded. 

While it is probably not a huge amount of sales online, it definitely would lower the sales of regular discs in shops (which are dying out in reality, see how badly GAME has been doing)

Console sales aren't what they should be, but retail sales of games is not all that it appears.

Oh, and for anyone thinking the Wii U is not doing 'bad' for three weeks on the chart, just compare ~70,000 in that time to ~75,000 GameCube sales in two days. Puts it more into perspective, right?

Wow, shit.
There are all sorts of problems with the WiiU. The main one is that the PS3 and 360 are still going strong. Nintendo have launched a console with roughly the same power that is much more expensive and has far less available games. They've launched too early. The WIi ran out of steam,

Can Nintendo recover? As others have said the PS3 had a poor first year or so, so it's possible. However, the PS3 had a lot going in its favour that the WiiU doesn't. Even if Nintendo do recover they're going to be vulnerable again once Sony/Microsoft launch their next consoles in a couple of years time.

Now on twitter, predicting celebrity death headlines! @thedaytheydie

I don't disagree at all with all these comments, especially on marketting, but surely the financial situation is a huge factor. Even I'm feeling it. Materially I'm steady enough and not much has changed in reality, yet I'm a lot more cautious about spending in general. It's a psychological issue.

To give an example, I bought GC all over again when the silver GC bundle came out with Resident Evil 4 so I have 2 Cubes. I bought DS phat, then DS light white, then the "limited" dark red/black DS when it came out in Japan, DSi and XL as well. Going further back, I have original GBA, 2 SP and 2 micro, and buying games on a whim. And so on so forth.

In the last 12 months or so I'm holding back. I wouldn't get another Wii in a different colour, for example, despite the temptation. One 3DS is enough too. The point here is that psychologically I have much less liberty to spend eventhough I've always been a rather big spender on Nintendo. I'm saving a lot more, thinking of what if scenarios and overall a negative outlook of the future - unfounded though it is because I am very stable. Negative sentiments in the economy is forcing me to change my mindset, and with it my spending has changed.

Obviously there are individuals far less stable financially, or countries worse than the UK. Or those who are less keen on Nintendo to begin with. In this way you can extrapolate what's happening to me to the wider society out there in the UK and Europe. It would then be much more comforting to go for an established console than building up a new library of games on a new console. Again a psychological factor.

I'm wondering what the major and minor factors are here. No doubt the marketting has been iffy with Wii U, but I can't help but feel it would have done a lot better if the economy was like it was in 2006. Some might say we've been in recession for so many years that it doesn't factor in. I disagree. Sentiments have been getting worse year by year, at least in the UK and continental Europe. People are much more weary and cautious, even if they're still financially stable. I myself didn't have this "just in case..." feeling 2 years ago.

HF (guest) 23.12.2012 20:10#15

As a parent I was completely confused as to what a Wii U was and didn't realise it was a completely brand new "piece of kit" as my son would say. He insisted on getting one for Christmas and has an Xbox 360 and Wii already. So I had to make him jusify this decision. Why would someone quite possibly need a second Wii was beyond me until he said it is a new thing. So I've followed websites such as yourselves for answers and then it has become clear that is a new system like ipad 3 from ipad 2.

I hadn't seen any news on this Wii U in the newspapers or on TV so from a completely unknowing position and parent I can throughouyl understand why this has not taken off in the UK.

So my son how has his Wii U wrapped up for the big day and it has taken me hours, if not days, to understand why it's costing my husband and i £300 we wouldn't spend that amount willy nilly on something that is much like an accessory for the Wii.


Senior ModeratorCubed3 Member

My reason: They've shown me nothing that entices me, and the couple of times and various games I've played have shown me nothing that the Wii can't do (albeit with prettier graphics). I honestly can't see the point in it + they've released next to no first party games that I'm interested in and they're targeting a market of people who, if they wanted those games, already own a competitor product and played the titles months/a year ago (Batman) on top of a Wii. 

JayUK said:
-New Super Mario Bros. just looks bland i'm sorry. I've got Super Mario World already, I played it 15 years ago, why I'd want to pay a kings ransom for a rerun with frankly a fugly artstyle is beyond me. The series is starting to become stale, it's nintendo's tony hawk.
-Nintendo obviously don't have titles ready to launch, so HD remakes would be a quick and easy way to attract people. The number of people posting 'why is this on wii?', on xenoblade videos is significant. These are the people nintendo should be trying to win back. The Wii music crowd are not gonna bail them out with a £250 price point. Its just not gonna happen. Also watch Xenoblade running at 1080p and the characters look somewhat human. Thats only if they do a quick and dirty HD treatment. Imagine xenoblade with a longer draw distance, no load times, a random number generator that's less of a jerk and the unused area added as a bonus.
-The load times and VC integration is an issue, at the moment its quicker and less hassle for me to turn on the wii and play a link to the past, than it is to play it on the Wii U. It shouldn't take me an extra 2 minutes + 2 extra menus + a change of controller, to play an emulated snes game. The whole point of transferring games is to reduce the hassle of having two consoles hooked up, at the moment the Wii U isn't doing that.
-Also the argument that these are launch games and developers are still getting used to the hardware would be more reassuring if people hadn't said the exact same thing at the Wii's launch.

I haven't played NSMBU yet, so I can only give the opinion of what I have seen on videos and been reading about it. And if it is like SMB3 or SMBW in HD then so what? It has new features and is in HD. Something MArio fans have been asking for. Can say the same for the first CoD and the latest. It's got better graphics and new features. Or for Gran Turismo or GTA etc... Why change something that works? Just improve on it!

It's a new console and developers had little time. Look at Red Steel 1 and then at Red Steel 2 on the Wii. Big difference. Look at games like Project Dark Zero on the 360 and today's games. The more time the developers have with the hardware the more they learn. That should be common sense.

Xenoblade was made for the Wii for two simple reasons I know of. Nintendo owns shares of Monolith software so it would be Nintendo exclusive anway, and it was cheaper to make for the Wii. Why people whine it's on the Wii and not the PS360? Well, maybe it's about fanboys stop whining and get a Wii (or Wii U) and actually play the game.  Just like fanboys were bitching about Bayonetta 2 being on a Ninty console. If you like the game, you will play the game whatever system it is on! That's being a gamer.

I would also love to see Xenoblade in full HD, but is there a market there? No! They would loose money on the project even if WE like it or not.

I haven't tried VC on the U yet, so I can not answer anything about that. But the Wii channel worked good. Didn't take 2 mins to start the Wii channel here either.

Now I am not saying hat the Wii U and Nintendo are perfect. FAr frm it, since they have their flaws as all consols and companies do. But attacking them with no good reason is silly. Just like Nintendo fanboys say "The HD twins are just for graphic whores" when it was the Wii vs PS360 time, but back in the GC days it was all "Look at all the better graphics on the GC compared to PS2".

Personal opinions are not facts. END!

There are no hardcore nor casual gamers, we are all simply just GAMERS

Entity said:
... (snip) ...
Reading between the lines of ironic tone, I think Jay knows that mate. He's just a frustrated individual like some of us are, though personally I actually think this is a part of the usual launch saga - whatever number of variations there are. Every generation there are less and less of smooth launches, and more dramas of all sorts.

We have a short memory. And when frustrated, we tend to argue over how this gloom differs drastically from another gloom of history we can draw from, and say "this time it's different because of X Y and Z". Yet, it will likely become just another variation to the theme of dodgy launches which all modern systems seem to fall into.

But anyways, this IS a dodgy launch, if that makes some people feel any better. But as with any system it's what they do from now on that counts.

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