By Barry Lewis 24.08.2006 24
One of the best analysisesss *ahem*..I've heard in a long while.
Nin10do. Cleaning out the bullshit.
IANC said:
Dude yuor totally awesome. And i won't be killing you anytime soon.
Excellent stuff Barry, top notch analysis as usual! Loving the accompanying images
Nintendo really has an agressive launch so there shouldn't be a clear-cut winner this time around. Sony will still be No.1 BUT that gar is going to REALLY thin.
Agree with it all i think that N.America will be Nintendo's weakest area but i still think it will do great there but in Japan and Europe i can see the Wii winning if the DS is anything to go by
Your article was really nice, works better when you read it really fast, and as the great old man said "let all that participate win but not all 'can' win".
Brilliant article. Very impresive and in very good detail. North America will be hard for Nintendo but they are good at hype which Nintendo in my opinion are best at creating. Sony's marketing has been strange at best with 'the second place' marketing for the PS2 being very dodgy.
If Nintendo can show that the Wii is great fun to play for the whole family then this will cater very well for the conservative/republicans lol. I look forward to seeing what happens.
Sonys problem is previously, their console has been seen as great value for money.
The DVD was an established new format that everyone could see the advantage of.
And the PS2 has a great combo to get that provided value for money.
Everyone understood the advantages of DVD.
However..this time its the other way around.
The average consumer hardly knows of bluray, let along acknowledges it as the net gen format, let alone has the right set up to use it.
The PS3 can no where be percieved as a value product, (even if, componant wise, it is)
The general public wont get that.
Sony will sale a lot to their larger fan base, but this time they will have a hard time convienceing casuals to spend that amount of money.
Especialy with the Xbox provideing simerla graphics for a much cheaper price.
I agree with pretty much all, but I somewhat disagree on some aspect of PS3 analysis. I think you are forgetting the traditional console gamers, who have been buying playstation line precisely because of the console style games that come from Japan (RPGs being one typical candidate).
Traditionally, console gaming has been so different from PC gaming. Xbox changed this trend by being the middle man, but one disadvantage of this is that Xbox line is critically close to PC gaming - meaning, it will have trouble attracting those who bought consoles precisely because of the "console style" gaming.
We'll have to wait and see how much of the traditional style come to 360, but for that, Microsoft would have to convince Japanese devs that 360 is a better choice.
Seeing how badly 360 is doing in Japan, I find that unlikely in the next few years.
( Edited on 25.08.2006 04:15 by Powdered Water )
As much as I hate the hyper coorporate driven Sony\'s gaming, I think Sony will find their own place in the market.
I really think the 3 horse race is a realistic this generation. Whereas Nintendo and Microsoft sell quantity over short period, I reckon Sony\'s strategy would be a much more long term success, where the sales curve will gradually climb over many years. Kind of like TV sales - the sales climb gradually, but surely.
In a few years PS3 could become considerably cheaper, increasing demand for it. Short term Nintendo and Microsoft will better Sony. Long term, all 3 will find their own demographic.
The problem that Nintendo has faced in North America has been the lack of third party support. This caused the N64 and the Gamecube to go long periods without software. The support that the Wii has will make the Wii more than competitive in North America. More importantly though is the support from Square-Enix, Namco, and other Japanese developers which will bring more RPGs to the Wii. This could adversely affect Sony. For two generations the PlayStation has been the home of RPGs. No other console has been able to compete in this regard. Now the Wii will be able too.
Sony has made a mistake with the PS3. Alot of small developers help to make the PlayStation what it is. Now the PS3 is too expensive for them to develop for. Sony will feel the repercussions of this for a while.
Addendum: The Wii will be hurt in North America and Europe because Call of Duty 3, FarCry, and Marvel Utimate Alliance will be on the other competing systems and feature online Gameplay. Nintendo did a disservice to themselves by not having their Online Gaming Plans ready at launch. This will hurt the Wii because their has been an increasing demand for Online gameplay since The PS2 went online, through third party support, and Microsoft created Xbox live. Nintendo has dropped the ball and this will cause some gamers to wait until Nintendo has finalized their wifi plans in order to purchase a Wii
( Edited on 25.08.2006 04:55 by patjuan32 )
Right now it seems to me third-party support for the Wii resemble more like a lot of pulled punches that strong brick breaking ones. Seems to me it consists of a DS remake, arcade compilations, feature-cut ports PS2 ports, etc. Ubisoft seems to be the only one who's even making an effort while others persued Wii development as an afterthought. I have yet to see anything from Capcom, Namco, Square-Enix, and Konami that's worth my time.
Capcom should be a big supporter given their presence on the Cube, and yet with so many announced projects for the 360 and PS3, why have we yet to hear anything from them. RE Wii? What guarantee is that? How about Konami. Seriously, Elebits? That had better be their means of testing the console abilities 'cause if that's indicative of their support in the future... no thanks. That DQIX rumor had better be real too. I've had enough of hearing about such great rumors turn to dust everytime while the 360 and PS3 get rumors that turn out to be true.
If your ready to dismiss Elebits so soon, maybe the console isnt for you.
The whole point of the Wii is to get original games from companys and not ports/sequals.
For all you know, Elebits could be the next pokemon. Probably not, of course. But theres a chance.
As there is with all expiremental games.
As for PS3/X360 rumurs turning out to be true...what planet are you on?!
Legitmate actual announcements dont turn out to be true half the time on those platforms let alone the rumours.
And if you compare the "screenshots" of PS3 games from last year to the "actual screenshots" from this year, some have been serverly downgraded.
Also, Square is working on FF:CC, which is going to be both online and almost certainly DS-compatible in some way.
FF:CC might have got a cool reception before, but, frankly, the title had a lot of potential and all the main problems can now be removed.
(aka, no need to have GBAs + Link leads to enjoy multiplayer)
It probably will be awhile before the game is ready, but thats a testiment to the scale of the project.
FF:CC look amazing on the cube (fur and refrection effects, as well as excelent texture work).
I expect the Wii one will be very impressive indeed.
I played FF:CC recently in solomode and was again intruiged by the wonderful graphics. The gameplay is a bit poor on solo-mode, but with 4 players on 1 console it's a lot of fun! I hope Wii-CC will improve on Singleplayer and smoothes out the flaws of the first one (carrying the chalice was tiresome for example).
I read about Elebits and saw the new GC06-trailer. I was surprised by the fine Gameplay and am eager to hear more about it!
So with 3rd-party-support and independents coming on to Wii Nintendo may have the one and best stand against the other two. Not in terms of sales maybe, but in terms of Quality. Sony was the winner with PS1 and PS2 only because they had so much mass of games with very good ones between. Cube had extremely high quality games and innovative ones too. If independents come aboard this will improve much. See Orb, Raid Over The River and more (Hell, even Red Steel is both of high quality and consumer-friendly for coregamers).
Now people only have to see, that ood games often come without big brand-names like Cars or Pirates Of The Caribbean - or even Lord Of The Rings (fortunately some of these were good too and my only EA games so far), but with new names no one knows about. People, escpecially casual gamers, tend to buy these big shitty brand-games from movies and such. And on the other hand games like Beyond Good And Evil are selling disasterous. Hope Nintendo can help change it.
some weak online-gaming-start and not having bundled them under something like a xbox-marketplace may be a flaw, but could provide easiert access for new gamers and be an advantage. I can not predict success of Wii, but I hope it will rise.
And so no analyst can predict the position of Wii either.
Trust no one!
Darkflame, don't patronize me. Just because your more eager to embrace Elebits than I would doesn't mean I'm against such games coming out at all. Games like Trauma Center and Rayman serves my taste very well. And just because Elebits is more original or rare in the industry doesn't suddenly make it good or appealing.
At any rate, my gripe stems mostly with Konami. Based on my personal taste their support of the Cube was abysmal. Outside of Twin Snakes, at best I'd consider their offering a bunch of fillers on par of what you'd expect from THQ, Acclaim, or Midway. Nothing special, nothing spectacular, and that's a shame 'cause they do have properties that are of blockbuster status. Unfortunately none of those made it on the Cube for whatever dumb reason they have. I refuse to accept this Elebits game because I demand excellence that I know they can deliver, even amongst other games like Elebits or Disney Sports. Instead, they deliver that on the PS2 and PS3. To you Elebits is delivering what Nintendo deems as big ideas with little budgets, to me, considering the size and status of Konami, that's a cop-out. Notice that the only other next-gen game they have is Metal Gear Solid 4? PS3 gets MGS4 and we get Elebits? Even you can undoubtedly see the glaring contrast. I don't want the same ho-hum games we got on the Cube. Heck, I'd take ports of the games they put on the PS2.
I'm not saying I don't share the same sentiment as Nintendo or you, but I'm no fool to simply accept mini-game after mini-game or kiddy game after kiddy game with artstyle that is about as basic as Elebits looks. I want games with depth as much as I want fun party games. I just don't think Konami has delivered much since the N64. Square-Enix first Cube game wasn't that spectacular either but at least I know what it lacked can easily be remedied in the next incarnation which I look forward to.
As for the rumors it just seems we get more of them than usual but we hardly get good actual truths. And what does this have to do with screenshots? Even if, for example, Resident Evil 5 looks severely downgraded later on, THEY have it, we don't. I'd rather have a downgraded "looking" port than nothing at all wouldn't you?
Questworld, I don't think Darkflame was being patronising. Or at least I wasn't when I felt the same way reading your post. I think he makes a very valid point.
It's kind of like, your problem seems to be that you have a dog and you want him to meow like a cat. Not meowing may be a problem to you if you wanted a pet that meows, but that doesn't make a dog in itself a problem.
In gaming terms, I firmly believe that all 3 consoles will cover different areas of gaming. Of course a lot of it will overlap too! But in the end, if the area Nintendo is covering isn't satisfying your thirst, you should try other platforms (even PC) to do that. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
In fact it sounds to me like you want Wii to turn into "another PS2" (in terms of "category of gaming"). If that happened, I'd be very disappointed. I'm buying Wii precisely because there will be no same-ish gaming that we've been seeing elsewhere. I'm supporting Nintendo because the direction they are taking has the highest chance of refreshing my tired mind from 2 decades of mainstream gaming. And the third party support so far largely echos that, at least in generalization. No doubt it will take a while for the dust to settle as anything very new would.
( Edited on 25.08.2006 18:16 by Powdered Water )
Nintendo's not my problem, their games satisfy my thirst when I want "orange juice." If I want "rootbeer" I know Konami has some of the best, but instead they feed me orange colored water trying to mimic Nintendo's "orange juice." It's not their forte. Why is it so difficult to understand that I want their best? Sure go ahead make games like Elebits, get use to the system. My point is their efforts better result into something spectacular. As far as I'm concerned their profits from Elebits better not simply be some cash build-up scheme so they can finance bigger, deeper projects like those of MGS4, and then simply do it for the PS3 crowd. I don't want to be one of those people who essentialy work their butt off stomping grapes and be told later I can't have the wine because I'm not sophisticated enough.
And yeah, maybe I do want games like Silent Hill and MGS, but that doesn't mean the Wii isn't for games like that. You can easily use the Elebits game mechanic and inject that into some next level point and click adventure that combines first person views, Myst and Monkey Island puzzles, all woven into some deep and exciting adventure or detective game.
You get that don't you? Wii is capable of deeper themes and stories WITH new gen mechanics that the system promises to offer. The question is, will these companies do that or will they be like those who basically saw the trend for mini-games on the DS and suddenly did the same thing? Thank god games like Trauma Center happened.
He's right about one thing...that he's probably wrong! Sony is in for trouble in all markets. I don't think North America is ready for Blu-Ray, though it will have a fair number of fans who step up and buy the console in the first few months at any price. Still, supply problems and the strength of Wii will put them behind from the start.
Educated consumers will buy a Wii and a 360 for the widest variety of quality games next gen.
PS3 is a huge risk for developers and it will be just as big for gamers. I see Blu-Ray failing outright, like UMD and Betamax before it.
The analyst is also drastically underestimating Wii. In Japan it will probably sell 30 to 40 million units in the next five years, with Sony selling maybe 10 million, based on current demand (See Famitsu.) At least he admitted to his historical pro-Sony bias.
Questworld said:
Nintendos not my problem, their games satisfy my thirst when I want orange juice. If I want rootbeer I know Konami has some of the best, but instead they feed me orange colored water trying to mimic Nintendos orange juice. Its not their forte. Why is it so difficult to understand that I want their best?
So the very point you are making, to me, is what destroys the object of following Nintendo's school of thoughts. I think you are barking up the wrong tree by criticising the likes of Konami for making games like Elbits, because that's precisely the sort of thing Nintendo is trying to trigger.
All that said, you are right that Wii doen't just have to be for games like that. So on that point, I would agree. But if that became mainstream on Wii, I would be disappointed. I'm not buying Wii because I want an extension to PS2's category of gaming.
I think the problem at the moment is that 3rd party devs still don't know how to harness the new mechanisms introduced with Wii. Inevitably, those companies will be careful of using their main franchise until they feel comfortable with the new development environment.
So whichever way I look at it, at this point in time your comments seem misplaced (or just shallow).
Thanks for all the comments on this, with me and not, I enjoyed reading them all!
In Japan it will probably sell 30 to 40 million units in the next five years, with Sony selling maybe 10 million, based on current demand (See Famitsu.) At least he admitted to his historical pro-Sony bias.
To be perfectly honest with you I hate Sony. They produce over-priced, readily faulty products in my book, and that's before we go down the painfully arrogant nature of their PR workers.
However when I studied the games industry at Uni I certainly gained some respect for what they have achieved with the Playstation brand. Gaming (especially Nintendo) was a very backward and retarded entertainment, Sony came along and took our industry from a niche geek audience into a mainstream entertainment that every day people did and at any age (to a certain degree anyway). I may love Nintendo and hate Sony, but I still respect both for what they have done.
Another point is that the Japanese still love Sony; they are the company that took Japan back to the world stage after the Second World War defeat (with Walkman). Hype may be on Nintendo's side at the moment but in the long term Japanese will still be looking to pick up PS3 when they can.
In terms of numbers from Nintendo, you might be right. Japan, as a country with 200 Million, has a very limited console market. The last numbers I can remember were around 28 Million console owners, factor in second purchases and there's not many gamers compared to other regions. If Nintendo really come true with their promise and get grannies playing games it could soar, but in reality I can see a mass shift from PS2 to Wii gamers while they wait two years to save for PS3.
A final point, and excuse the rambling here, we simply have to remember that Sony have a 100+ Million install base. PS2 was a very successful console, why would 100 Million people decide they didn't want the new version? Price will be an issue for a while, but after the Hardcore fans flock to the system Sony are dropping the price for the other 90 Million Playstation consumers out there!
( Edited on 28.08.2006 15:24 by nin10do )
Aye, I don't think the PS3 will be a flop by any means; the software it will boast will be enough to ensure it is a massive hit in Japan and we all know America and Europe love the PlayStation brand. They are not idiots, and even if they do have a very bumpy launch (which I think they will), I can easily see Sony doing a very good job with the PS3. That isn't to say the Wii won't do better and that's where I disagree with you Barry. I think that the DS and the lite have shown that Nintendo know how to market and sell what they are doing and that the Wii will be an extension of that success and go on to do truly great things in terms of sales and industry impact. You only have to look at developer interest and investment to get an idea of how big the Wii could potentially be. If the public love it as much as the gaming industry and development community, I can easily see it eclipsing the sales of the 360 and PS3 in five years time.
As you say though, nobody really knows what will happen. The first weeks/months sales information will be a telling thing though.
. That isn't to say the Wii won't do better and that's where I disagree with you Barry. I think that the DS and the lite have shown that Nintendo know how to market and sell what they are doing and that the Wii will be an extension of that success and go on to do truly great things in terms of sales and industry impact. You only have to look at developer interest and investment to get an idea of how big the Wii could potentially be. If the public love it as much as the gaming industry and development community, I can easily see it eclipsing the sales of the 360 and PS3 in five years time.
I was restraining myself a little when it came to Wii, trying to stamp out bias and personal hype really (good or bad move, I'm not sure...)
Nintendo are basically trying to do what Sony did (yup, Nintendo copying Sony for once!), and if they pull it off we *might* see Playstation size numbers. As you say we need to see how it all comes together, exciting times indeed though
Half of PS3 success depends on how well the crap gamer element is sold to. (the FIFA/Film tie in crowd).
The other half success of PS3 comes down to how well they get across the value of Blu Ray.
nin10do said:Another point is that the Japanese still love Sony; they are the company that took Japan back to the world stage after the Second World War defeat (with Walkman).
Also Sony loyalty is often given as the main reason why Xbox 360 has problems in Japan, but again, that is a myth. 360's campaign in Japan was so naiive and misplaced, I can't believe the marketting officer didn't realise translating the marketting tactics in the west wouldn't work in Japan. Their ability to stick to traditional gaming is another big factor. Any other reasons, loyalty or otherwise, is trivial in comparison.
RobTheBuilder is somewhat closer to the truth - Blue ray is one big factor for PS3's success. Loyalty is no longer strong enough without something actually externally desirable.