C3's missing members

Slydevil said:

oldschool said:

Takeo R.I.P. said:

GR - too long, didnt read. Who are you trying to convince - you or me? Me thinketh thou protesteth to mucheth.

Dont dismiss someone like that, show some fucking respect for people. Funnily enough, id bet you did read it.

No offense, but who'd read that at 2 @ night? I didn't read it either, too long, takes a good sitting.
Don't fucking say fucking, that's just fucking disrespectful! XD

Anyways, I think he's keeping it rather polite/funnyish. I remember Oni, myself, and lots of other members saying worse things than what you just quoted without getting any warning whatsoeve, so no reason methinks to tell him to show some fucking respect, eh?

Slydevil said:

oldschool said:GR - too long, didnt read. Who are you trying to convince - you or me? Me thinketh thou protesteth to mucheth.

Dont dismiss someone like that, show some fucking respect for people. Funnily enough, id bet you did read it.( Edited on 11.08.2007 16:55 by Slydevil )

Actually Sly - only the first paragraph. This is not about respect - respect is what I have not been afforded. Remember me, I am the 'fucking twat" and that is the official forum position.

Revisionist history is taking place and I fail to see any point in reading it.

If I read, it is logical that I should reply. When I do reply, I get accused of continuing or perpetuating it. This is what they classically refer to as a 'lose-lose' scenario.

( Edited on 11.08.2007 17:02 by oldschool )

Get the fuck out with your silly arguments, this thread is about the missing members! The ones who dissapeared without saying goodbye...

..Sigh.. too long for you to read? That has to be your most avoisive and least effective get out so far. As ever, incapable of taking me on on a point by point basis.

There is no revisionism going on- everyone is aware that Oni had behavioural problems in the past, and that this latest resurgence of that behaviour is why he got banned.

However, there is a clear line pointing to you oldschool-
Since your arrival, there has been a perpetuation of overly easily offended, fanboyish (regardless of whether they own one or more console) members, who are greatly offended whenever someone is critical of them or their views. There is no doubt in my mind that your action regarding Oni started this trend.

These, I would guess, are the kind of members Oni mentionned when he described being "driven out"- though some of Oni's behaviour was antagonistic, it takes two to tango, and certainly there was strong overreaction by some members on several occasions.

The fact of the matter is that this has taken the site downhill- discussion has become more sparse, debate has dwindled, because rather than taking a bit of flack and criticism, and then having a feisty debate, members have dissolved into accusations and name calling.

You may not be the reason that Oni was "banned", but you certainly started the trend leading to it, and most of all, you most certainly started the trend which has probably lead him and others to have no desire to come back.

However, what I and others are saying about you has nothing to do with some kind of tragic loss of Oni- you must be aware that, should anyone desire to, they can easily find him at the new site. You, Linkyshinks, and others, can pretend that people are striking out in "grief" (as if anyone is so attached to another member on a forum), but this is genuine criticism, not an anguished attempt to lash out.

Anyway, as is evident by your fairly excuse that my last post was "too long", you aren't willing to engage in logical debate over the issue; or even illogical debate, as is more your nature.

Let it be noted - you keep pushing this GR - not me. You badger me for a reply when I have actually lost interest and pretty much don't care. So, just for you.

GR781 said:
..Sigh.. too long for you to read? That has to be your most avoisive and least effective get out so far. As ever, incapable of taking me on on a point by point basis.

Is avoisive a word (Kent Brockman)? It is not intended as a get out. Remember your beginning to a reply to me? Ho-hum ring bells? Just a cursory glance over your post left me with the impression of old pointless positions that were not worth replying to. Sorry if that offends.

Simply, I believe you are biased and whilst the weight of your position confirms this to me, it is pointless reading about why you believe you are not.

This will count as a point by point reply.

GR781 said:
.There is no revisionism going on- everyone is aware that Oni had behavioural problems in the past, and that this latest resurgence of that behaviour is why he got banned. However, there is a clear line pointing to you oldschool-Since your arrival, there has been a perpetuation of overly easily offended, fanboyish (regardless of whether they own one or more console) members, who are greatly offended whenever someone is critical of them or their views. There is no doubt in my mind that your action regarding Oni started this trend.

At leaaast you agree he brought about his own undoing. As for the line directly to me - like wow. Do you jave a line that also connects the CIA with the Twin Towers? Conspiracy theories are amazing. Apparently, the universe allocated me a bunch of fanboys who would follow me and leave a trail of destruction behind me.

I was unaware of my mystical powers. Forgive my amusement and sarcasm, but really - you actually believe that? Where the ones who came with me during my time or the ones who followed that did not know me responsible? That line of argument barely has a grab on reality.

Heaven forbid that some nice young kids - the future of this site - where offended at being insulted. Clearly they were not good enough to be in your elitist clique. That is what I despised about what happened. Ownership was claimed by the older members and a claim of exclusivity reigned at the expense of inclusiveness.

Thanks for calling me a trendsetter.

GR781 said:
.These, I would guess, are the kind of members Oni mentionned when he described being driven out- though some of Onis behaviour was antagonistic, it takes two to tango, and certainly there was strong overreaction by some members on several occasions. The fact of the matter is that this has taken the site downhill- discussion has become more sparse, debate has dwindled, because rather than taking a bit of flack and criticism, and then having a feisty debate, members have dissolved into accusations and name calling.

So you feel sorry for Oni because he was driven out by these horrid noob fanboys - who never knew me? The speed of hypocrisy on 'two to tango' is superb. Oni would insult, someone would take offence and the insulted is to blame for taking the offence! They wouldn't have had to be offended if Oni behaved himself in a civilised way.

This is exactly what you did to me. I would call Oni on his behaviour and you would jump in to defend him. The fact that you are blind to this is disappointing, yet not surprising. After all, you were in his clique.

More hypocrisy when you complain against noobs inability to take a bit of flak and criticism. First, that is what you defended Oni against. He was allowed to dish it out, but played it up for sympathy when some splashback occurred. Secondly, why should tthey put up with it? Why can't they have a pleasant time without condescension and derision?

A classic case of shooting the messenger. You are the atypical type who blames the victim for causing problems for having the audacity to register a complaint.

On top of that, I am being criticised (incorrectly) for casuing arguments when I was here, yet this is exactly what you myopically pine for - the good old days.

GR781 said:
.You may not be the reason that Oni was banned, but you certainly started the trend leading to it, and most of all, you most certainly started the trend which has probably lead him and others to have no desire to come back.

Again with the trend starting. You credit me with far too much power. Clearly you lack a mirror. May I remind, it was predominately you and Matt that caused my departure. You constant and partisan support of Oni (and Joe) was the biggest problem. You couldn't let me argue with him, you had to intervene and support his precious and sulking nature. You don't like being called biased, but there it is, right in front of us, for all to see.

GR781 said:
.However, what I and others are saying about you has nothing to do with some kind of tragic loss of Oni- you must be aware that, should anyone desire to, they can easily find him at the new site. You, Linkyshinks, and others, can pretend that people are striking out in grief (as if anyone is so attached to another member on a forum), but this is genuine criticism, not an anguished attempt to lash out.

Wrong man. The hate is being channelled through me because I am the brave one who stood up. He may be elsewhere, but it is not here and that angers them. Again, I had nothing to do with his banning - I haven't posted in months. Stop trying to disguise it as criticism. That is pathetic and untenable.

I merely replied to his lashing out at me. He singled me out. I merely set the record straight. That you can't see that is irrelevant. They saw my name and launched without bothering to read the post. They personalised. Read back on the comments directed at Oni in that thread and compare them to my one post. You argument has more holes than George W. Bush's brain (if he had one).

GR781 said:
.Anyway, as is evident by your fairly excuse that my last post was too long, you arent willing to engage in logical debate over the issue; or even illogical debate, as is more your nature.

Logical debate is my specialty. I fail to wwaste it where it is not required though. That last comment typifies that you are biased. You don't like me because I don't like Oni. That was a barb intended to irritate, to get a rise from me. Apparently I am the expert at that if you read posts of others. It is not the behaviour of a moderator.

No, it was a remark because I am fed up of you misappropriating comments and putting words in my mouth.

I never credited you with intentionally setting a trend for this kind of member; I merely noted that following you adopting this behaviour, others also did, then became reluctant to accept speedy resolutions, and drawn out conflicts became the norm. This has been unpleasant for the site.

I don't feel "sorry" for Oni- as far as I'm aware, he's just fine. I feel sorry for the site, because it is losing the energy, level of debate, and quality of poster that have made it great.

You assume that I don't like you because you don't like Oni; wrong, I just plain don't like you. Your behaviour has lead me to that, not your attitude towards Oni.

What is more, your overuse of the word "bias" seems to have lead you to forget its meaning; I am stating my opinion, not making decisions that affect anyone. I am not "biased" against you, because I am not "doing" anything.

What you are saying is the equivalent of this:

Person a) I think X
Person b) I disagree!
Person a) Then you are biased against me!

When bias would actually only make sense in this situation:

Person a) Please decide whether X or Y is better.
Person b) I think Y is better.
Person a) (Noticing person B is the owner of the company that makes Y): Hey! You are biaed against X!

Simply put, you can't accuse me of being biased against you, because I haven't "acted", I have merely stated opinions. The fact that I disapprove of your behaviour doesn't mean I am biased against you, it means I disapprove of your behaviour. Simple as.

Let's all just post how much we miss msenyszak instead.

I miss you, man!

I'm feeling apologetic today. Sorry for the rant aboout randomness, Fart. (seriously, it's not sarcastic)

This arguing is giving me headaches after an 8 hour shift.

Whatever dude. If you say so. Right back at you. I am glad to see some of the truth emerging though. Still think you over value my effect on others. Plus, you don't get it and you never will. This explains why you should stop bringing it up. Take the advice given to me by others - drop it.

Let it go, you'll get an ulcer.

Karma dude.

Goddamnit, people...

...group hug?

I'm up for it.

*Join Phil for group hug*

Edit: Not drunk, but in a right strange one...

( Edited on 11.08.2007 19:26 by shiptoncraig )

I only do group hugs when I'm extremely drunk, sorry.

Hey.... where the heck is Sabot? He hasn't posted in a while...

I don't feel "sorry" for Oni- as far as I'm aware, he's just fine. I feel sorry for the site, because it is losing the energy, level of debate, and quality of poster that have made it great.- GR

One sole member , surely the concern and attention should be on the countless members he offended and took energy and debate from due to his offensive posts.{LS]

Have you also noticed that Knighty and Grumbler also do not post anywhere near as much? I'm sure some other good members will be coming along to a better place soon too...

Stop raping my funnies.

CataLySt said:
I dont feel sorry for Oni- as far as Im aware, hes just fine. I feel sorry for the site, because it is losing the energy, level of debate, and quality of poster that have made it great.- GROne sole member , surely the concern and attention should be on the countless members he offended and took energy and debate from due to his offensive posts.{LS]

Whats the purpose of dragging this up? But yes, as pointed out, that wasn't solely in reference to Oni, but to a heck of a lot of people. This thread, in fact, is testament to "missing members", so I don't really need to look for evidence for my statement, there are 15 pages of it right here.

DIGIMANZluver420 said:
Have you also noticed that Knighty and Grumbler also do not post anywhere near as much? Im sure some other good members will be coming along to a better place soon too...

Seeing Knighty is the creator of that so-called "better place" you'd think it's quite obvious for him to be there

Well, yeah.. but why do you think he wanted to make it?

GR781 said:
Well, yeah.. but why do you think he wanted to make it?

To discuss games without raving Nintendo-fanboys bitching about everything being said? Just a wild guess

Personally I just don't get this "the world's a sadder place without Oni in it" stuff that's been proliferating on these forums. Sure he made some good posts and often made you think, but he could post as much drivel as anyone he had a go at, and could pick a fight with most forum members (especially given his dwindling fondness for Nintendo games). To me he was part of the decline in post quality on this site.

When I first started following this site many members were posting ideas of what the, then, revolution controller would be. There was a great deal of imagination, enthusiasm for what Nintendo was doing, and much positivity.

Over the following months and years there's been a general increase in negativity, sniping and moaning with most threads being dominated by 4 or 5 posters. People that used to post positive ideas and impressions dropped out and those with negative points of view filled the gap. To me, whenever it came to anything related to a Nintendo game (SMG excepted), Oni was a massive part of that negativity.

Now the reaction to that seems to have gone a bit overboard in some quarters. It's a shame really.

@GR781

Don't you think it's a bit unprofessional for a mod to explicitly say he doesn't like a specific member? Mods are meant to be impartial, no? Perhaps that's the kind of bias oldschool was talking about?

Not really, I separate my role here as a mod and a member. I think its fairly obvious to anyone that, on that particular issue, we don't exactly get on that well; however, I've never abused my status as a mod because of that, or taken a biased decision as a moderator.

And it can't be the "bias" Oldschool is talking about, because my sense of dislike emerged from, among other things, being called biased.

There isn't much point in most people commenting on this to be honest- the whole debacle involved an extremely lengthy PM exchange between the both of us, as well as a lot of stuff in the mod forums, and most people do not have the facts as such.

A basic synopsis that I think Oldschool would agree to is:

1. Oni posted something anti nintendo.

2. Oldschool posted some images of dead horses being flogged along with the phrase "stop flogging a dead horse".

3. Matt viewed this as an attack on Oni and moderated as such.

4. Oldschool disagreed with that decision.

5. This effectively developed into a scenario where Oldschool believed that Oni was trolling- i.e. seeking to cause an argument, and should be moderated.

6. The moderator team disagreed- we decided the definition of trolling was too blurred, and we weren't going to effectively censor Oni.

7. On talking to Oni about it, in our view it seemed that he was posting his opinion because it was his opinion- not because he necessarily wanted an argument out of it.

8.However, we asked him to keep it to relevant topics, because we did agree that often he posted that opinion where it was off topic and unecessary.

9. Oldschool wasn't happy with the outcome, and as far as I know, this is where he believes we were biased, in as far as we disagreed that Oni was trolling. Oldschool wasn't happy to accept that decision, and so the whole thing blew up.

10. This then carried on over an extended period of time- perhaps as long as a full week, with a lengthy PM exchange.

It is that this point that I began to resent Oldschool's behaviour, not least because the argument spilled out onto the forums, and because I don't appreciate being called biased constantly. I found the argument extremely tiresome and a total waste of my time, and extremely frustrating- in my honest opinion, the mod team made a decision and he should have respected it, instead of engaging in a massive debate that went nowhere. This wasn't just my decision being debated- it was also Matts, all the others moderators, and JB's, all of whom were consulted about the problems.

The ironic thing is that the reason it went on for so long is because it was (and mainly still is) my thought that Oldschool is a good member, who posts interesting and intelligent stuff; I repeatedly refused to ban Oldschool because of this.

In essence, you might think my posts are a bit ott in this thread, but they're the culmination of a heck of a lot of unecessary frustration that was dumped on my plate when we were pretty understaffed- Matt and I were the only active mods, and I had A-Level exams on. People seem to make the mistake of believing that I actually cared about the conflict between Oni and Oldschool- I only cared to the extent that I didn't want it to disrupt the forum. However, the mod team at the time made a decision, I believed it was the right one, and I refused to change it just to end an argument. Changing my mind would have meant setting a precedent for C3 where opinions could be labelled as offensive, trolling, without any hint of overt aggression whatsoever, and while that might suit some of you, it sounded pretty shite to me.

Essentially, I felt that Oni deserved the right to post his opinion, negative or positive, as does everyone else, so I defended his right to do that. Not to be rude, or derogatory, and if you look at the reason why he was banned, you'll see it was that, and not his opinions.

Not to be an ass, but really, if this thread, and the other threads with discussions/arguments of similar nature would've just been locked, it would've really saved you the frustration, and your 'ott' posts wouldn't have been necessary. I know I don't HAVE to read all these posts myself, but it's still rather tiring a lot of members are wasting their energy on this bullcrap instead of properly getting C3 back to it's old 'roots'.. I think a lot of other members would prefer if we could just get back to 'Ye Ol' C3' again, instead of these pointless arguments revolving around pointless arguments^^

( Edited on 14.08.2007 17:48 by Ino Faust )

As I said, most of the conflict was off site, via PM- I'm talking literally thousands of words here. As a mod, I can't just "ignore" a pm exchange about a moderator dispute.

I didn't lock this thread and others because I'm personally involved, and because, as Oldschool himself said, clearly people needed a place to "vent".

GR781 said:
As I said, most of the conflict was off site, via PM- Im talking literally thousands of words here. As a mod, I cant just ignore a pm exchange about a moderator dispute. I didnt lock this thread and others because Im personally involved, and because, as Oldschool himself said, clearly people needed a place to vent.

Then please, create a blog or something, because this is taking up the recent posts bar, and people will automatically be drawn to it, see pointless arguments, and probably cba to post anymore, or at least just keep it to one thread, because this takes up about 3 different threads, which is rather pointless.

..I stopped replying to this some time ago, but if someone asks a question, I'll answer. Don't tell me where I can and can't post. And, of course, if you were genuine about that point, you wouldn't have even posted.. it just bumped it again. I'm happy to let this drop, and I did, but I'll respond if someone else brings it up.