N64 PAL vs NTSC

In this thread, I'll be comparing the NTSC versions of N64 games to the PAL versions. I'll be doing this on actual N64 hardware, not PC or VC emulations. I'm doing this as it's something which interests me, and something which I'm now able to do, as an owner of a PAL N64 with a large collection of PAL games, and a new NTSC N64, with a growing collection of NTSC games.

Yes, it's sad, and yes, not at all interesting to the vast majority of people out there. Some of you will find the info here interesting, at least. As was common for consoles of this era (and a non-issue now, with the new HD tv standard making PAL and NTSC obsolete), PAL versions of games were usually scuppered with a squished image (a result of the game not using PAL's extra vertical pixels), and running 17% slower (a result of the game code not being recoded for 50Hz).

There were exceptions to this, when games were well localized for the PAL format. Rare were really the kings at this. For most of their N64 games, the PAL version is the definitive version to own. Most other games which were well-optimized for PAL still ran slower than NTSC, though were full-screen. Here is an interesting article I found on the subject.

So there you are. If you're at all interested in this sort of stuff, I'll be cataloging these very differences as I go along beefing up my NTSC collection. If you're an N64 enthusiast yourself, this'll just be of general mild interest to you anyway, even if you don't intend on building your own NTSC collection (or PAL, if your native region is NTSC). Though I would encourage you to do so. N64 emulation is not perfect yet, and the real console is still the best way to play many of it's best games.

Generally speaking, NTSC is the format to be playing in with N64. Not always though. On with the comparisons!

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Banjo-Kazooie

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GoldenEye 007

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Majora's Mask

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Perfect Dark

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Super Mario 64

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Wave Race 64

( Edited 03.08.2014 02:30 by Azuardo )

PD is one of my favourite games of all time but whenever I go back to it I almost feel like crying. The frame rate is so shit. I dont know how I never realised back in the day. Is the NTSC version noticably different in terms of frame rate? Or do you really have to concentrate to see any difference at all?

It\'s marginally steadier, which can easily translate into a significant difference if you\'re really into the game. I consider the difference significant for PD, but I\'m a PD nut. One of my favourite ever games. One thing that annoys me about PD\'s \"bad frame rate\" rep, specifically the part about it being worse than GE- it isn\'t. PD has a steadier frame rate than GoldenEye, despite all the extra graphical goings on. Multiplayer with bots really bogs down the fps in PD, but otherwise it\'s the same engine, just refined. Leave the bots out of it, and it runs smoother than GE. The single player is about the same.

But yes, while I\'m nervous about urging you to go and splash out on an NTSC machine with an appropriate copy of the game (as you might deem the difference insignificant, and then be angry at me), I would say the difference is particularly noticeable to a PD fan, if not especially huge. Remember, you\'ll be losing some resolution. So it\'s not all \"1up to NTSC\", there are many things like that to consider. I\'m still not sure which version I\'d rather have, if I could only have one. The steadier frame rate is only particularly noticeable during parts where the game will slow down. It still slows down, but PAL slows down more. During the normal run of things, the NTSC version just moves a bit \'silkier\', as it were.

( Edited 04.03.2008 21:19 by Oni-Ninja )

PAL = bad, NTSC = good
Composite = bad RGB = good
50Hz = bad 60Hz = good
Virtual Console = bad XBLA = good

PAL = bad, NTSC = good
Composite = bad RGB = good
50Hz = bad 60Hz = good
Virtual Console = bad XBLA = good

This.

PAL = bad, NTSC = good
Composite = bad RGB = good
50Hz = bad 60Hz = good
Virtual Console = bad XBLA = good

That.

Heard it before.

( Edited 04.03.2008 21:41 by shiptoncraig )

That's not really what he's saying though. He's saying that PAL can be as good as NTSC as long as the developer isn't a lazy sod.

Rare = good, Rest = bad?

Stop being a sausage jockey, Craig. The purpose of the thread was not to big up XBLA or cuss the VC as you are saying. Though I bet it\'ll go that way now, thanks to you. The purpose of the thread was to relay my findings of comparing real hardware (emulations don\'t really come into it, in this particular instance). Few people really have a chance to do this, especially with the same game, so I thought it might be kind of interesting to a few people. And note that the only time I mentioned the RGB mod on my NTSC unit was when I was saying I didn\'t take that into account, as it wouldn\'t be fair on my PAL unit.

Mmkay?

I\'ll add one more disadvantage for NTSC- the box arts are fucking awful!

( Edited 04.03.2008 22:05 by Oni-Ninja )

Oni-Ninja said:

I'll add one more disadvantage for NTSC- the box arts are fucking awful!

I always thought that it was PAL players that got the worst boxart, although maybe you mean just N64-wise? In which case I'd probably agree.

TheStratMan looks forward to Oni's coverage of weird and wacky Japanese games.

It\'s totally a subjective thing. One which we\'ve covered before, too. It\'s my (and many others) belief that the US box arts tend to be really tacky and awful. Makes absolutely no bearing on the game or anything. It\'s just an interesting difference. PAL and JAP box art (which are often the same) tend to be more \'arty\' and pleasing, whilst the US box arts tend to have the game\'s characters in rubbish poses.

US RE4 box

PAL/JAP RE4 box

US Ico box

PAL/Jap Ico box

Those are just the tip of the iceberg. The US version sometimes gets lucky, and has the same box art as the PAL and Jap versions. Often doesn\'t. Most of the times they have crap new \'edgy\' box arts to appeal to Americans. Less said about that the better really. I compared my US Perfect Dark box with my PAL one. They\'re the same in concept, but very different in execution:

US Perfect Dark box

PAL Perfect Dark box

Our one looks better.

( Edited 11.03.2008 02:54 by Oni-Ninja )

I think the US RE4 one is better myself. Oh and PAL PD not workings...

EDIT: Damned typos...

( Edited 05.03.2008 19:37 by DaOne )

Really? You don't think it looks really tacky and awful? And I fixed the PAL PD box

If those comparisons are anything to go by, then we are getting the better end of the stick for once.

Although I suppose Japan still gets the best art. Lucky gits...

When you say "we", you mean UK/PAL, right?

Yep.

Its not exactly a box art issue, but the DS case difference between PAL and NTSC confuses me. Why do NTSC gamers get these DVD-like boxes ;

and PAL players are stuck with those bloated cases, that I can\'t find a picture of?

I don\'t know, is it a storage issue? Do PAL regions need bigger booklets?

( Edited 06.03.2008 07:45 by Phoenixus )

The Japanese box for Perfect Dark craps over both the other ones. Mainly because Jo Dark's munterness is conveniently glossed over.

Argh, makes me want to play Perfect Dark again.

Stop being a sausage jockey, Craig. The purpose of the thread was not to big up XBLA or cuss the VC as you are saying

I know, but what you usually post comes under one of the categories I mentioned before.

Often

Though I bet it'll go that way now, thanks to you

I love hindsight.

Few people really have a chance to do this, especially with the same game

Because people don't care.

The purpose of the thread was to relay my findings of comparing real hardware (emulations don't really come into it, in this particular instance)

We know it already though, the amount of times you've gone on about PAL/NTSC differences in totally other topics is enough already.

Nice comparisons. GE and PD definitely do the N64 justice, we often go four on four when people come over as it really hard to find something as enjoyable on more recent consoles.

Definitely seek out some classics on ebay, gumtree, local Gamestation etc. Have gotten quite a few N64 titles I never had the chance to own back in the day as it was so bloody expensive.

Anyways, comparisons wise, it was too long ago to remember any major differences. That said, I do remember wondering why GE looked a little less sharp on some American kid's tv.

Hmm - I'm SO positive that my perfect dark box was the US box Weird.

I do wish they'd release PD with a more solid frame rate - it's not too bad when you emulate it. Don't want to go too much into this, but we're currently looking into emulating GE/PD and playing locally on separate PCs, it's been done but tricky to setup and get working properly. Doesn't feel natural without an N64 pad, so may get a converter.

Playing both properly on the PAL machine, it's good for 2 players, pretty sluggish for four - but you get used to it.

You need a pretty powerful PC to emulate Perfect Dark with any success. Even then, the camspy and stuff like that doesn't work, as it uses the framebuffer, which all N64 emulators are really bad with (as they're all high-level emulators, not emulating the low-level sub-routines). This makes a few levels impossible to beat. You can get a converter for your N64 pads, or you can just get some good PC gamepads. There's plenty about.

I'll definitely be seeking out some classics. Bare in mind that I already have a pretty extensive PAL collection (some hard to get hold of stuff, too). I'm just taking my first wee baby steps into building up an NTSC collection. I doubt I'll buy all my PAL games again on NTSC. I only really got PD and GE as they were in such good condition, and going really cheap. Thought I might as well get a couple NTSC games to go with the console.

artmonkey said:
The Japanese box for Perfect Dark craps over both the other ones. Mainly because Jo Dark's munterness is conveniently glossed over.

Yeah that looks sic, actually. I saw an in-game screenshot of Jap Perfect Dark once, and they actually gave Jo a chinky sort of face. To appeal to the Japanese gamers more, I guess.

..and PAL players are stuck with those bloated cases, that I can\'t find a picture of?

I don\'t know, is it a storage issue? Do PAL regions need bigger booklets?

( Edited 06.03.2008 23:17 by curoi )

Oni-Ninja said:
I saw an in-game screenshot of Jap Perfect Dark once, and they actually gave Jo a chinky sort of face.

There's still a couple of 64 games I'd pick up if I saw them. Slydevil comes his pants over Mischief Makers. Apparently.

I most certainly do. In fact I had my hand down my pants several seconds before I read your sentence. This telepathic and arousing manifestation is a perfectly natural evolutionary course between such magnificent matter and myself, a perfect marriage of circuit and man.

And Craig, hijacking an innocent thread and diverting it into off topical-land and generally being rude and dismissive is pretty out of character for yourself. Don't do it please.

jb said:
Definitely seek out some classics on ebay, gumtree, local Gamestation etc.

Ebay, yes. Gamestation only sells PAL games, though. I'm done with PAL N64 games. They're just too blurry through the composite lead. After playing N64 in RGB, I find it difficult to go back. Interesting note for those considering an RGB-modded N64; The US console is natively able to output S-Video, which is nearly as good as RGB. So you don't have to go to the trouble and expense of getting an RGB-modded console if you don't absolutely *have* to have RGB.

The PAL consoles got fucking shafted though. The best they can do is composite. I wonder why Nintendo circumcised the console's video output in this way? I hope one day that someone finds a way of RGB modding the PAL consoles. That'll be awesome.

jb said:
Hmm - I'm SO positive that my perfect dark box was the US box Weird.

You're probably getting confused with the label on the cartridge. As you can see in the picture below, the PAL cart's label bears the same art as the NTSC box (and cartridge, for that matter). The only difference between the PAL and NTSC carts is that the NTSC label has the American 'M for Mature' rating thing on it, whereas ours has a BBFC '18' sticker on it. Oh, and the tabs on the back underside are different, to fit in the different consoles.

Wasn't sure whether to bump this or not (especially seeing as this doesn't seem to interest many people here). There was no point editing this into my last post, as no-one would see it. So anyway, after spending a week with my lovely new NTSC N64, I can come to some more solid conclusions regarding the "Perfect Dark/GoldenEye PAL vs NTSC" thing. The PAL ones are better. As amazing as that is. Makes sense, really. As a format, PAL is superior. We only got fucked over on games because they were made for NTSC, and pushing 17% more pixels out of any given console afterward was just out of the question nearly all the time.

Enter Rare. Without wanting to go over what I said before, the PAL version moves at the same pace as the NTSC version, though drops a few more frames now and again. This only really happens during times when there is slowdown, anyway. So why's the PAL one better? Well, for once (in this particular era of gaming), since the speed is the same, and the slightly less stable framerate is arguably negligible, all you're left with is the higher resolution. It's not loads higher, but enough. When it really notices is in 4-player, where every pixel counts. Where on the NTSC version an opponent might just be two or three pixels, on the PAL one they're slightly easier to make out.

Which is why it wins, in my opinion. It's not so much of a boon in single player, where you've got the whole screen to yourself. In fact, I'd probably say I'd rather play the NTSC single player, purely for the framerate, and the PAL multiplayer (where framerate isn't an issue anyway, unless you use loads of bots), because of the extra pixels to go around four players. It's very anal stuff, but there you have it. PAL wins because no-one really plays GE or PD single-player anymore, but people still often do get together for four-player death matches and the like on both games.

Sorry again for bumping, as I suspect this is all falling on disinterested ears. I had to post my 'conclusion', though!