I was a Sonic kid, first game I played was Sonic 1 at around 2 years old, and I'm younger than knighty (17). I was brought up by Sonic, and until recently I still was. It's only since I got really serious about gaming that I began to see what he was becoming.

This could fix it. I don't think it will.

Although I like the art style, seeing Sonic squished against that glass/screen and Eggman/SuperSonic makes me think that they've left this super realistic stuff behind.

Although I don't want Sonic Rush on 360/PS3, I want Sonic Rush on DS. I want 3D Sonics on console, and I want them try TRY with it.

3D Sonics are only bad because they lacked effort in creation. A great 3D Sonic is possible.

I'm the other way around. I can play Mario 64 over and it's still great. The 2D ones kind of bore me, though I now see their merits. For the record I think this new Sonic looks just as shit as the last few. SEGA aren't even really SEGA anymore, anyway. It's just Sammy, who bought the name. There's more to it than that, I'm sure. That's just how I like to think of it, though. It gives me an excuse for how shit SEGA are now, and lets me attain closure on my once most-loved games company.

That whole Hedgewolf thing is weird because Sonic is an animal, yet he turns into another animal. It's just odd.

I'm not sure the hedgewolf is the same character as Sonic, although it's also probably just a were version of Sonic. Sonic seems to be getting into all sorts lately. Last time he had a Fire Arrow in his chest like a time bomb, now he can transform into a supah THINGY.

I can still play Mario 64 & love it, but I can still love Mario Bros 3 & Mario World too, just not as much.

I prefer the 2D Sonics to the 2D Marios though.

But humans are animals too...it's no more wierd than a werewolf...

As a game mechanic though, it'll probably suck. But hey, it worked for Link.
If it's a new character, I'll hurt someone. Sega need to stop with the pointless new characters... >.<

For you all to understand the whole of my post i'd have to say that i was a SNES and MasterSystem kid. Who played both Mario and Sonic and watch both cartoons on Channel 4. With Mario Curtains, Sonic plushes and birthday cakes. Let alone Mario and Sonic board games, Sonic toys i whored the merchandise as a kid.

Needless to say to go back in time i used to prefer Mario games, despite my favourite colour being Blue (as oppose to red i.e Mario) Ive only ever owned a Master System and a Dreamcast as opose to the SNES,64,GC,GBA,DS and Wii from Nintendo's brands.

But playing the old Sonic games fustrate me 2, i like playing through Sonic 3 and Knuckles, maybe because of the save system. Playing Sonic 1 feels to slow and Sonic 2 is good but i get bored half way through. Even the spin-offs are a lil dismal such as Sonic R and Sonic Fighters. (Although Sega Superstar Tennis is awesome!) Especially compared to Mario's ones notably Mario Kart, Smash Bros and Mario Tennis.

I think the older Mario games are still more replayable today than the Sonic ones. However i go on record to say that i like all the 3D Sonic games bar Sonic Heroes really. Although i do like to play it occasionally. Sonic Riders is alright i guess, but compared to Mario, sonic just cant keep up at all.

Those screens look great and so does that video, i feel like it should be a good game if it was real, but some how i just feel like someone went through to much effort to doctor those photos and video. I do have to admit that i love Rush, probably over NEW SMB so lets hope that this can be great.

As for what console its on, i dont truely care. Thats what the whole point of having a Wii360 is all about!

when did people decide pessimism is more fun than optimism.

wii can do that surely. SMG no worse, very similar style.

a mario-beating sonic would turn heads, perfect time for a rebrand for so many reasons (ridiculous cheapness, SMG timing, cross promotion, girls, retro-chic revival err...wii). In fact the recent sequence of sonic featuring games is now very intersting. especially tennis and olympics.

Sega + nintendo = kissing up a tree.

It's so obvious its painful. course sonic team are more stupid than me. economically though it would be ridiculous. they like money remember.

As for whether it could be done. surely. look at shadows, no textures, leaves (flat panels of textures at different angles), very little bump mapping, it's all SMG/SMS/MKDD resource saving techniques. you precisely model with high polys and you fuck textures and then you make it look shiny. they're high res shots remember. kiddy game = easy good graphics, I mean compare it to viva pinata.

ps3/360 graphics is all hype (slightly contradictory statement considering my reference to viva pinata but hey). its the processors and HD that blow the wii away anyway.

shigsy's bbq
myamoto: so what you up to then?
Naka: wer'e gonna make a mario beating sonic
myamoto: Ha! you're stupid
naka: we are. rebrand mate
myamoto: you're serious...finally...OMG thats a fucking good idea, we'll help.
naka: fuck you mate see you on dreamcast 2...*shakes hand

Ninty can't hire people fast enough they're probably paying 3rd parties to make good games who are probs already rolling in it. theres so much money flying around wii it's ridiculous.

Wiifit will take over the world

woman: you know dieting
woman 2: yeah reason why I've been unhappy all my life
woman: you know its impossible for it do anything at all and its no fun
woman 2: yeah i know doesnt work for shit
woman: this does

*end of world

I think a similar res not HD SMG/SU/COD4/viva pinata side by side comparison would be very revealing.

actually wait a second why would it be 360 again

*prepares to feel ashamed

It's not being pessimistic, it's being realistic. If you think the Wii you could do that you are mad.

It has soft shadows, the models and level geometry is super smooth and it's clearly at 60fps constantly. Not to mention that is has some really nice motion blurring.



What? Have a look at Bioshock and Assassins Creed and come and say that again. And I played both of those without an HDTV.

edit:





Wii vs PS3/360??

I was trying to work out the main thing that made it look un-wiiable, it's the lighting, and it's very clear in those 2 shots. Especially the HDR and ambient occlusion mapping (look at the door).

edit 2: Disregard all that, having looked through the rest of the shots there's plenty that either show only the lighting or only textures so this is obviously just a comparison with lights off/on. Still, point still stands. Having a look through some of the shots, some of them seem possible on the Wii but the majority don't.

( Edited 27.03.2008 04:50 by knighty )

These are really looking good. But will sonic really be released on the PS3 and the 360?pls tell me I don't know.

You're right Assassins Creed and esp Bioshock are stunning (have played a reasonable amount of both) but they have certain clever aesthetic styles that aren't "realistic" if you know what I mean. This enables better bump mapping/modelling etc (in bioshocks case I'd say that some seriously good artistry helps the graphics). Different styles are hard to compare but this vs SMG is illuminating IMO. 360/ps3 are simply much more powerful (graphically aswell) but I think the belief that only nintendo could bring out SMG eye candy is so wrong. Wii is so cheap.

How is it 60fps? It's a heavily doctored promo vid if those aren't real camera angles (which they better not be). And the lighting/geometry was exactly what I thought was SMG standard. Sonic/enemies are modelled etc to the level of mario and levels are an even lower standard (bigger draw distance though). Wii can do shaders we know that and the lighting (of which I clearly know nothing about) in mario was sublime.

I mean the white town looks like it could almost (with a few firmware updates) be pulled off on gc. Then again sonic will be moving at high speed.

I can't show you the SMG shot I need (because I'm stupid at the internet) but I am sure that there is one which has all the effects/poly count/lighting to prove my point.

I'm not doing a: SMG graphics pwn!!!11!! wii is better etc
I'm thinking in terms of industry speculation.

Give a development team 30 years and unlimited funds and they'll produce bishock on gc (even if the lighting is through particle effects the bump-mapping is polygons and textures everything inbetween they will find a way). right now in the current environment on wii anything is possible.

It is not just raw power (much less than most people think) but artistry and ingenuity that defines a games looks. Unless you can find a shot that has a specific graphical technique that the wii simply was not provided with (such as shaders for example) then I can't see why it isn't wii.

It just seems to good an opportunity for sega to pass up. but then this is sonic team were talking about.

What are you smoking? Sure graphics on consoles get better as time goes on but there's a limit mate....and all those shots have shaders in them. And it's really obvious it's 60fps. The Wii simply cannot handle advanced shader techniques because it just doesn't have the power, simple as that. I've been developing my own shaders for a little while now and I sometimes have trouble getting them to run perfectly well on my 8800GT! I think the Wii only has shader model 2 as well which is REALLY restrictive on the number of instructions you can perform compared to SM 3.

not enough smoking at the mo unfortunately, probably why I've suddenly started attempting to think.

Sure it may run at 1fps and the shadows are actually cleverly manipulated huge game destroying sections of nothingness. There are, however, ways and means of being clever and these ways are cleverer than you're currently imagining them to be and that is about 1% of how clever they could potentially be which is infinite. You shouldn't be so closed to such possiblities even if you can't (and realisticly so) imagine them becoming a reality. Code can be improved and optimised infinitely can it not? And even if you reach a limit can you not invent a new system with a new limit, again, infinitely? surely you cant be suggesting that you could definitively tell me the the most perfect optimised piece of code that is physically possible on the wii becausethat would make you omnipotent and therefore a god.

they dont get better as time goes on they get better depending on money, skill, experience and time. All of which (apart from time) you can have at the start with (esp with wii or if you're ninty/etc). You'd just be blowing your load if you did it at the start and would have nothing left to sell. They are all much, much more talented than they are allowed to be.

remember there are no proper textures there and I don't believe the geometry is anything better than gc actually.

I was waiting for you to break out the real technical terms and shame me but I mantain mofo. Until you're willing to comment on SMG that is.

EDIT: by anyhting is possible on wii I am very much reffering to sonic and not bioshock.

( Edited 27.03.2008 14:45 by KingDom )

You are comparing SMG graphics to this? Christ sakes I give up arguing with you. SMG hardly uses any advanced shader effects like the lighting in these shots whatsoever, it just has a silly white glow around everything.

( Edited 27.03.2008 15:44 by knighty )

I'd say it's possible to get somthing along the same lines out of the wii, those screen shots arn't from the wii version though.

If there is a wii version they havn't shown it yet.

Also don't diss the white glow knighty.

( Edited 27.03.2008 15:39 by Blade2t3 )

oh and also, SMG has no anti alising whatsoever. This is amazingly AA'd.

Wahay finally I'm wrong.
Still mantain though.

EDIT: Wait How is mario so smooth and lovely if it isn't AA'd. And why is sonic AA'd and not just well modelled.

Have been trying to compare them from the first sentence though yeah. what shader effects are SMG and sonic using by the way?

( Edited 27.03.2008 16:07 by KingDom )

^That's the Wii version. Note the 16:9 support, which those 360 screens don't seem to show. At least the Wii version does widescreen, then.

( Edited 27.03.2008 16:35 by Oni-Ninja )

But, but: