Official Wii U Discussion Thread

 NEC was competent in the third and fourth. They owned the third gen in Japan, Famicom was second.

How do you measure a consoles success?

• The amount of units it shifted?
  
• Profit margins? 
  
• The amount of games released?
  
• The Power of the console?
  
• How many peripherals it has?
  

Just doing a quick google search (i have not got time to verify these stats) but i can see that the Xbox 360 has released around 950 games after being on the market since 2005, the Wii has released around 1220 games since 2006, and the PS3 around 770 games since 2006/7. 

That is not taking into account regional differences/releases, nor does it include VC/WW/XBLA/PSN...so the Wii has had its fair share of games..sure they didn't steadily drip the games but i heavily suggest looking at some of those great games such as Kirby Epic Yarn, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sonic Colours among others that people just didn't get around to playing/buying when they were released.

Sure the Wii didn't have the graphical capability of the other consoles but those who care seem to be just neglecting themselves of some of the greatest games of the current gen. Likewise those Nintendo fanboys who havent owned a PS/360 will miss out on some stella games as well.

I guarantee this trend will continue on the Wii U, it would have a tonne of Wii U exclusives that are going to AAA games, whether or not they will be the top notch graphics or not! 

Power means nothing and analysts know nothing, look at the handheld war where the GameBoy was written off...the DS was a "gamble" and highly unlikely to beat the PSP and the same with the PSVita set to do better than the 3DS.

Gaming journalist's predictions are just as accurate as the weathermen of the 1970's!

( Edited 06.02.2013 00:48 by Flynnie )

Guys! Make love not war!

Some light is potentially shed on Nintendo's view and experience with HD developments that in turn makes me more confident for the WiiU's future!

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-claims-to-finally-understand-hd-development-244092.phtml

final version of Wii U dev kits weren't available until the later half of 2012, after which all developers working on the hardware had to undergo a trail-and-error phase. Nintendo was no exception, hence the lack of "hardware-pushing" first-party software out the gate.

As Wii U is new to them, some developers have already acquired the knack and made good use of its features and others have not. You might see this gap among the games that are currently available." Hence relative jankiness of several pieces of launch software, regardless of how well the games run on the 360 or PS3.

Nintendo are confident the next year will be good for them and they're very passionate about proving it with all this industry news coming from them. I look forward to seeing what they do.

No Witcher 3 Wild Hunt for Wii U by the sound of things. A HUGE loss for the platform. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/gaming/the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-announced-for-pc-and-highend-platforms-8483697.html

Rayman Legends is no longer WiiU exclusive AND has been delayed til September:
http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/07/rayman-legends-confirmed-for-ps3-xbox-360-release/

Welp.

Linkyshinks said:
No Witcher 3 Wild Hunt for Wii U by the sound of things. A HUGE loss for the platform. 

I wouldn't have expected that on the Wii U in the first place, so it's no real loss.

SuperLink said:
Rayman Legends is no longer WiiU exclusive AND has been delayed til September:

This however, is a massive loss for Nintendo.

( Edited 07.02.2013 16:42 by Stulaw )

Nope, Wii U release delayed.

Also, that was the Wii U news Rich IGN teased.

What a dick.

Stulaw said:

Linkyshinks said:
No Witcher 3 Wild Hunt for Wii U by the sound of things. A HUGE loss for the platform. 

I wouldn't have expected that on the Wii U in the first place, so it's no real loss.

SuperLink said:
Rayman Legends is no longer WiiU exclusive AND has been delayed til September:

This however, is a massive loss for Nintendo.

Why, because of Wii U's power?. They're excuse with 2 was a lack of time. Witcher 3 will be one of the biggest releases of 2014, a game with clear potential to be as big as Skyrim was, if not bigger. Having no Bioshock Infinite is understandable, but having no Crysis 3 and Witcher 3 is very worrying. I highly doubt Beth's next game will arrive on Wii U now...

Wii U seems like it will miss out on the best Western RPG's because of it's technical limitations. The genre pushes hardware the most in the West.

WiiU is more powerful than PS3 and 360.

Witcher not coming to WiiU is a very obvious demographic choice, it doesn't have that sort of playerbase at all. It has nothing to do with the system's power, if the demographic existed on WiiU, the effort would be put in for a WiiU version.

SuperLink said:
WiiU is more powerful than PS3 and 360.

Witcher not coming to WiiU is a very obvious demographic choice, it doesn't have that sort of playerbase at all. It has nothing to do with the system's power, if the demographic existed on WiiU, the effort would be put in for a WiiU version.

What demographic choice would that be, Nintendo Wii users don't like open world RPG's unless their Japanese?. 

Witcher 3 is not coming to PS3 and 360, it's going to "High-End Systems".

Nintendo have single handedly made a mockery of the term "next gen" with it's last two consoles, hence the new term, a term Wii U users can expect to see frequently used in the coming years.

No Cyberpunk 2077 ( Sci-Fi open world RPG made by the same developers ) on Wii U also, if it cannot run RedEngine 3

The REDengine 3 is the third iteration of CD Projekt RED's in-house technology. It is created for RPGs set in vast, open worlds with improved tools for spanning truly non-linear stories that are based on real player choices and consequences.

'If we look at RPGs nowadays we find two approaches, one which emphasizes the story but limits the game world, and one that builds a vast, open world but hampers and simplifies the story. With the REDengine 3 we combine the positive aspects of both approaches for the first time, creating an open environment with a complex, multi-thread story. Together with believable characters, a captivating tale and a world where players can roam freely without loading times, we will be able to move gaming to a new level with a realistic feel and full player immersion. When working on our previous titles, I didn't dream that we would achieve something like this. Thanks to the support of all our fans, now we have the possibility to use REDengine 3 and create something many RPG fans dream of," said Adam Badowski, head of CD Projekt RED studio.

The REDengine demonstrated its capability to create great adventures for the first time in The Witcher 2 (PC). It was praised for its graphical excellence and exceptional, branching storytelling. The studio developed the technology, and with optimization REDengine 2 (internal name) brought The Witcher 2 to Xbox 360. Now CD Projekt RED aims to set their games in diversified, open-world ecosystems while maintaining a well-paced and robust story.

The REDengine 3 tech is tailor-made to create non-linear and story-driven RPGs with a system that allows to stream and handle fully explorable open-worlds. Cyberpunk 2077, the second project the studio is working on, will have prime examples demonstrating that REDengine 3 is the perfect tool for creating immense universes filled with exciting, nonlinear adventures. The advanced technology of the REDengine 3 makes RPGs comparable to top-shelf shooters, both in terms of game-world presentation and the epic proportions of events that the player is drawn into. The engine is a next-gen-ready solution that begins to blur the line between pre-rendered CGI movies and real time rendered graphics, bringing us closer to the most life-like world ever created in video games. All the state-of-the-art visuals form a living ecosystem allowing the player to be a part of a vivid environment. The new face and body-animation systems implemented in REDengine 3 offer realistic expression of emotions, movie-quality scenes and character interactions.

The technology uses high-dynamic-range rendering with 64-bit precision that ensures superior picture quality with more realistic and precise lighting without losses derived from reduced contrast ratio. A flexible renderer prepared for deferred or forward+ rendering pipelines has a wide array of cinematic post-processing effects, including bokeh depth-of-field, color grading and flares from many lights. A high-performance terrain system allows multiple material layers to be efficiently blended and uses tessellation for the best possible detail. The technology also includes seamless blending between animations and physics along with many more features. The engine uses CD Projekt RED's new version of its proprietary REDkit editor with tools made specifically for RPG game creation. The editor can build complex, branching quests and set them in a free roaming environment with a simplicity not achieved by similar toolsets.

CDProjekt

( Edited 07.02.2013 19:35 by Linkyshinks )

In that case it makes sense; I don't think anyone expected the WiiU to be anywhere near as powerful as PS4 or NextBox anyway?

Gen is not a power-related term, it simply means which machines are going against each other in the industry at any period of time. The N64 and Saturn were not very close or similarly comparable in terms of power, nor were the NES and Master System, similarly with GB and GameGear, the DS and PSP were also pretty far apart.

They're all from the same "gen" though, it's always been that way, "next gen" has never meant "most powerful systems coming out next gen", maybe it is to some developers but it's still going to be competing on the same market with other systems and games of the same gen.
High-End or High-Power is a much better term to use for what they want to describe, than "next gen".

Either way, IGN's accompanying article to today's WiiU news does say that 3DS, 360, and PS3 have all had pretty poor stars before their respective rampant successes. PS3 lost tons of exclusives, and Vita has had its sales forecast cut for the third time. It's probably not the end of the rocky times for Nintendo, but the WiiU will find feet within a few years.

(and hey at least Bayonetta 2 isn't going anywhere)

SuperLink said:
In that case it makes sense; I don't think anyone expected the WiiU to be anywhere near as powerful as PS4 or NextBox anyway?

Gen is not a power-related term, it simply means which machines are going against each other in the industry at any period of time. The N64 and Saturn were not very close or similarly comparable in terms of power, nor were the NES and Master System, similarly with GB and GameGear, the DS and PSP were also pretty far apart.

They're all from the same "gen" though, it's always been that way, "next gen" has never meant "most powerful systems coming out next gen", maybe it is to some developers but it's still going to be competing on the same market with other systems and games of the same gen.
High-End or High-Power is a much better term to use for what they want to describe, than "next gen".

Either way, IGN's accompanying article to today's WiiU news does say that 3DS, 360, and PS3 have all had pretty poor stars before their respective rampant successes. PS3 lost tons of exclusives, and Vita has had its sales forecast cut for the third time. It's probably not the end of the rocky times for Nintendo, but the WiiU will find feet within a few years.

(and hey at least Bayonetta 2 isn't going anywhere)

It may not be a power related term in your mind, but it is in the minds of those who create games. Most gamers aren't stupid enough to believe what a company like Ubisoft has to say about Wii U when they know how much of an investment they've made recently.

Taken from the quote in the above post:

The engine is a next-gen-ready solution that begins to blur the line between pre-rendered CGI movies and real time rendered graphics, bringing us closer to the most life-like world ever created in video games.

The next gen solution is driven by power, not quirky controllers. Wii U seems destined to miss out on the very best third-party software this gen, it cannot run these games and few devs if any will bother to try. I can see it getting technically inferior games like "X" and other similar Japanese titles, but not the best from the West.

( Edited 07.02.2013 20:07 by Linkyshinks )

Linkyshinks said:
It may not be a power related term in your mind, but it is in the minds of those who create games. Most gamers aren't stupid enough to believe what a company like Ubisoft hasto say about Wii U wgen they know how much of an investment they made.

Taken from the quote in the above post.

The engine is a next-gen-ready solution that begins to blur the line between pre-rendered CGI movies and real time rendered graphics, bringing us closer to the most life-like world ever created in video games.

The next gen solution is driven by power, not quirky controllers.

If a system with the Master System's capabilities was created and marketed alongside 8th Gen systems, it is an 8th Gen system. It's a term for informing the market what's "new/current" and what's "old". Fact is, the WiiU is new, it's current, it's gonna get new stuff. It's an 8th gen system because it's directly competing with other 8th gen systems. That's what a gen is.

And on a slightly different and slightly related note, the WiiU's recent struggles have reminded me about how the PS3 fared towards the beginning of Gen7 and I thought it made for an interesting retrospective. You know what's really strange? The PS3 is now a very widely respected console with tons of great games and exclusives, a solid OS and digital network that works across multiple different Sony systems, and it still gets more great games and exclusives too.

But like the PS3 launched in 2006, and for almost 2-3 years it was widely seen as the laughing stock of the games industry, there were countless image macros about "ps3 fails" and how Sony had ruined a great brand, even songs and stuff about it, photoshops, and that one "ps3 has no games" joke that people still use today (fondly I think) But yeah looking at the PS3 now it's hard to believe how badly it started even if lots of us saw it first hand.

This is exactly why long gens are so important and why I think gens in general should be really long! To give those slow-starting systems a chance to really shine. I'm starting to think that we're reaching a point where Gens will get longer and longer to the point where new systems aren't really necessary, people still want PS3 and 360 games, most gamers feel they can get the most out of those systems which is why they still get so many releases where most systems slow right down before their successors show up. I believe it's very possible something similar will happen with the WiiU or maybe even the WiiU's (probable?) successor. Just something I thought about.

EDIT: Of course it won't get the highest power third party games. Doesn't always mean "the best" are the highest power. The best rated game of last gen (or ever) was Mario Galaxy.

( Edited 07.02.2013 20:21 by SuperLink )

I'm not going to get bogged down in silly definitions with you. The fact is controllers did not give parity across the board in the last generation of consoles, even though all of them used motion control. The last gen was a two tiered one, directly because of power, as this one is destined to be even more so. 

Hm... "even more so" based on what? From what I've heard, Sony and Microsoft are expected to produce more affordable/profitable machines this time, without the huge technological leap of last generation.

And then there's the issue of development costs for high defenition games.

I've never been into technical details, so when those PS4 specs 'leaked', I couldn't make out how good it was. Eurogamer said it was good but not amazing.

I fail to see how it will be even more so, if anything it'll be a similar affair. The WiiU is perfectly capable of running huge games, PS3 and 360 were rarely ever, if ever, truly tested by the limits of their system to the point where there were important gameplay-related things they just couldn't do. That's why original games continue to be released for them. The same limitations that plagued Gens 6 and 7 (and the Wii) do not exist on HD systems with 25GB discs (with whatever media they use)

The fact is, regardless of huge power differences the Wii competed with and in industry terms was far more successful than its competitors despite that. Power =/= success. The Wii had some great games too, it was used as a bitch for easy-money for the most part and maybe the WiiU will be used the same way, but it still had great games, some games that were debatably "better" than "high-power" games. Even occasional third party ones.

Power =/= quality, you know that LS. There will be amazing games coming out next gen that use high-power systems to their potential, but there will be games on the WiiU so good that power won't even matter for them. People would certainly like a more powerful version of Mario Galaxy or any amazing WiiU games sure, but that doesn't mean those games aren't amazing in their own rights.

Honestly you don't have to explain to me that the WiiU won't run Gen8's most powerful games, anyone can see that and anyone who bought the WiiU most likely doesn't care about it being "the most powerful". Quality games on the WiiU are an inevitability either way; it'll still get games you can't get anywhere else.

Console gens have had "multiple tiers" of power and capability since the beginnings of video games, period. It's a non-issue.

( Edited 07.02.2013 20:53 by SuperLink )

Isn't this just the same argument as last gen? With the Wii, PS3 and 360. There were amazing games for all three consoles and the same will repeat this gen. You pick the consoles and games you want and everyone's a winner.

Pretty much. The Wii totally proved wrong any arguments about power being the only thing that matters when it comes to good games or success, so I don't know why these simple facts are so ~devastating~ for WiiU's future. The Vita has not devastated the 3DS either. Far from it.

The WiiU very much has its place in the industry, every system does, they just need to find it.
And maybe the WiiU isn't your type of thing, that's ok, it's going to make a lot of people and gamers very happy regardless of whether or not it plays NextBox's most cutting-edge game.

(Plus Nintendo have enough reserve cash to make up for tons of huge mistakes, they're seriously loaded. This won't even be necessary considering they still make nice profits even in their worst years. There's no reason to worry about Nintendo or the WiiU.)

( Edited 07.02.2013 21:16 by SuperLink )

After all...who could have seen this console being a success after this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJElsNaC6yQ

Canyarion said:
Hm... "even more so" based on what? From what I've heard, Sony and Microsoft are expected to produce more affordable/profitable machines this time, without the huge technological leap of last generation.

And then there's the issue of development costs for high defenition games.

I've never been into technical details, so when those PS4 specs 'leaked', I couldn't make out how good it was. Eurogamer said it was good but not amazing.

The technical gap is larger than the one that existed in the last generation, both Sony and Microsoft are going all out on the power route. 

They will be affordable and profitable because they've been in development for a long time, using more reliable components and better thought out architecture. A high failure rate won't be seen as acceptable as it was for most of 360's early life. 

And then there's the issue of development costs for high definition games.

Nintendo fans need to stop sighting this as some major hurdle where Nintendo will take advantage. Initial training and recruiting will cost more, but the fact is these games will be far easier to make a year or so down the line on these platforms. New state-of-the-art game engines, which Wii U cannot support, feature drag-n-drop game design features, of a type first seen in CryEngine 2 years ago. They will speed up development and reduce costs over time. On the flipside, Wii U developers will need to try and squeeze as much DX11-esque effects as they can using lesser engines, and this will be labour intensive and very unlikely to be comparable in quality.

Why does this matter?, it matters because Nintendo sold the Wii U as being a platform where you can play the best first-party Nintendo titles, and more importantly, also the best multi-platform third-party games. They said "best third party software" at E3, that claim holds no weight what so ever with most gamers now.

It's now clear there's no way it will be physically able to provide the latter. The Wii U wont be able to provide anything near the visual fidelity seen in the multiplatform titles due next year. Just like last gen, Nintendo's platform is going to miss out on the bulk of the best 3rd party games made!.

Have Wii U owners bought a Wii U for first party games only? I think not, I think they were duped into believing what Nintendo claimed was true.

When Wii U owners saw "X" and began hitting forums claiming this was, truly a next-gen game, only possible on Wii U, I cringed knowing many aspects of that game reek of the past generation of graphics. It's not even in the same ball park of what can be done now, and what will be shown at GDC next month. The only thing that's great is that they've been able to push all that on old architecture (and it's high standard of art). But those graphics, or to be precise, physics, will not directly provide next gen gameplay, which is only born from FULLY physically rendered gameworlds. Similar games made on the other two are likely to shit on it from a great height, they will make those huge lumbering monsters look like crap. No procedural morphing, low textures and polygons, no real-time lighting and soft body physics, no deformation, and to top it off, very poor animation ( a monster looked like a jumping rock ffs). That's not next-gen/

The gap will seem like a gaping chasm, mark my words. I have designer friends on fb who are creating some of these of games. I've seen assets and know they cannot be replicated on Wii U.

Friends work http://www.iryoku.com/

Nintendo didn't upgrade high enough to provide the very basics of what's possible now in videogames, they thought 720p (not even 1080p) and a memory cache to provide open world games was enough. The insular Japanese company failed to realize OW gaming of a type we know well today, has been around since 2008 - it's not new and is no big deal to the present audience, while fully physically realised games of such OW scope, are.

Physics, AI and procedurally streamed gameworlds will rule next gen gaming, not a controller with a screen that reduces the consoles power by 50% when used! (laughably poor). The other two consoles will have similar controllers also, according to Michel Ancel. The Wii U will lose it's appeal even more if that happens.

Bayonetta on 360 was 1080p, sad to think the sequel is very unlikely to match even that aspect/


( Edited 08.02.2013 12:31 by Linkyshinks )

Nintendo said "best games", not "best game power/graphics". It's standard PR for crying out loud, every single console developer says "the best games", but not every system has Mario Galaxy.

Dude no matter how long you spend trying to explain that the WiiU isn't as powerful as its opponents, we know already, and we don't care, the WiiU is the WiiU, it'll be great, just like the Wii, and will get great games from both Nintendo and third parties just like the Wii did. It'll possibly even be more successful or make more profit than its competitors too. I have no idea why you're so dead-set on proving the WiiU's power is a huge WiiU killer when almost every gen til now has been "tiered" and even the weakest machines can come out with among the best games?

I seriously
do not care that the WiiU cannot put out the best visuals. I'll buy a PS4 for that. You may as well be trying to argue that every high-power game from Gen8 will be inherently superior to every game from the last two gens (haha, I'd like to see an FFXII beater from Square-Enix, or even a Diddy Kong Racing or Banjo Kazooie beater from Rare, games that are ~15 years old). I wonder if any PS4 or NextBox games will ~automatically unanimously~ top the ol SNES, PS1 or MegaDrive classics simply because they're pumped with AI and physics and graphics.

Fact of the matter is, Nintendo users are used to the Wii and DS being used as cash-in machines, it really can't be much worse than that and both those consoles still had great libraries in the end.

Guess what games sell? Mario and Pokémon. Do those games need physics and AI? No. The current audience does not "demand" those things, masterpieces without them will continue to exist in plenty, indie games, even PS4 and NextBox games that don't use physics or AI will be better than many games that do. They're one strong element of a game, having good ones does not automatically make your game great.

And even if Bayonetta 2 is only 720p maybe it's actually a
maybe
a better game...? Just throwin out crazy crazy ideas here.

( Edited 08.02.2013 11:36 by SuperLink )

Actually, they said "best third-party software".

-------------------------------------------------------------

Wii U launch has been disappointing, says Activision

http://www.edge-online.com/news/wii-u-launch-has-been-disappointing-says-activision-boss/?

( Edited 08.02.2013 12:21 by Linkyshinks )

And that's different how? It's still standard PR, they probably said similar things about the Wii too.

Activision is kinda stating the obvious, even fans and Nintendo themselves have been disappointed. I can't think of a recent console launch besides the Wii that hasn't caused disappointment from developers. Even the original DS did.

Really it's a repeat of last gen. Remember how much doom and gloom people gave the Wii? How it would supposedly be destroyed by vastly superior tech and games with far more freedom, etc etc.. and the Wii ironically destroyed the opposition, financially? (which let's be honest, is the only thing most console developers care about - the Wii was an overwhelming success to most in the industry and there's tons of jealousy and attempts at imitation in every orifice of it). Wii also came out with multiple great games despite a lot of weak periods. There's so much more to game design than having the most power, people. Design. Some of the recent gen's most memorable and unique titles that really made people love playing games were indie games and small digital games, games that could probably run on computers from the 90s or earlier. A game is not made by graphics, AI, or physics. These things enhance the experience offered by designers, but a bad designer or director with all these things still cannot make a good game.

Even if Nintendo were stuck with SNES technology, you'd still see titles coming out better than some of the crap you'll continue to see in the future. How many more editions of "Microtransactions: The game" will we be seeing in the next few years from EA?

Stop pretending that power is the end-all of gaming, even those who appreciate powerful games know that much.

I dunno about you but I'd take VVVVVV over Steel Batallion: Heavy Armour (good technology? check. good game in any way? nope.) any day.

( Edited 08.02.2013 12:31 by SuperLink )