Internet Snuff Videos.

Do you watch them, or have you?

I have seen a few, due to morbid curiosity. I always regret it heavily, and sit there for around half an hour or more afterwards in complete silence, unable to think of anything else, and feeling very angry at the perpetrators. I watched another last night (first time in a long time), and it was just absolutely hellish. No horror film could ever be scary after watching one of these things. I'm not even going to name the thing I watched (it's not one of the Muslim throat-cutting ones), since I'd hate even one of you to look it up (and chances are, someone would). I looked away from the screen for most of it, but the sounds were absolutely horrifying.

It makes you realise that there's some really twisted fuckers out there. Completely batshit insane. It's usually something to do with religious beliefs (let's not get too heavily into that, though). I mean I can understand killing someone in certain circumstances, like if they've catastrophically wronged you and/or your family/friends. But.. you know... a bullet in the head will suffice. The people who do these videos don't even know the victims. They are just absolutely senseless, brutal, torturous murders. They just practice pure, unfettered hate against completely random and blameless individuals. I'd rather be eaten alive by a shark than go like that.

A couple of the ones I have seen (partly or wholly) have actually just been people at parties with this stuff on their phones, passing it around. Why do people do this? They'll stick it under your face and go "Watch this shit!" and before you know it, you've just seen someone die for real, often in the most terrifying way. Makes even the absolute worst stuff in games or films just look like CBeebies (UK children's television broadcasting, for for those not from the United Kingdom). Makes you want to cry, to be honest.

What's everyone's opinion on this?

Never seen one actually, so I can't comment on it. Where do you watch these kind of movies?

Never seen one either.

( Edited 24.06.2009 17:39 by Ike )

Disclaimer: I say some really controversial stuff, but it\'s not my viewpoint, OK? I\'m just playing devil\'s advocate to generate debate. >.< I mostly agree with other comments myself.

I avoid them at all costs, unfortunately it can be hard to avoid some of them (pics too) depending on which sites you frequent but hey what can you do?

For the sake of argument:
I guess to me it just proves that the internet provides for every single niche, no matter how sick or twisted that niche may be. Obviously there will be people who enjoy these things, but at the same time it\'s reassuring to know that these are a very minute minority, and some of the things you may have done that could be considered weird are considered normal in comparison!

So.... in a really stupid way, they have their upsides (meaning fetish vids, not murder vids).

( Edited 25.06.2009 00:41 by SuperLink )

I never want to see one. I'm not the squirmish type, I've watched those crappy gore films and autopsy shows without flinching, but I don't want to see people die. I wouldn't even watch those death row videos (just as bad in my opinion). Yeah those people who have it on their phones and flaunt it around carelessly must be deranged, like how could you enjoy seeing death? Perfect army candidates.

People die the most gruesome deaths for the gratification of others, SuperLink. Saying they 'have upsides' in any sense is exactly the same as saying child pornography has upsides. Child pornography makes your weirder interests seem normal - you consider that an 'upside'?

I haven't watched any. This is the first time I've heard of the term before. I did watch the 2 Girls 1 Cup video the other week though, just out of curiosity. I wish I didn't though, I actually wretched and had to switch it off straight away.

It's the sickest video I've ever seen.

Martin_ said:
People die the most gruesome deaths for the gratification of others, SuperLink. Saying they 'have upsides' in any sense is exactly the same as saying child pornography has upsides. Child pornography makes your weirder interests seem normal - you consider that an 'upside'?

It may sound better to put it this way though: At least myself nor any of my friends or family around me aren't anywhere near that fucked up.

Makes you appreciate life a little more you know?

It makes me appreciate life less, personally. To know that such horrors for worse than anything in fiction actually exist makes me question everything.

When I was staying over in a pre-university yoke, someone in my dorm threw on "2 girls 1 cup" during breakfast...

I've seen one, involvig a throat. Not intentionally, saw about 7 seconds of it. Someone linked it to me, without saying what it was. Needless to say i haven't talked to him since.

Martin_ said:
It makes me appreciate life less, personally. To know that such horrors for worse than anything in fiction actually exist makes me question everything.

People who have sick fetishes filled out by the internet would possibly use the internet for their possible curiosity or interest rather than carry out something horrible in real life. The fact that people will get these fetishes in the first place is inevitable and cannot be prevented no matter how much we want them to be, so wouldn\'t letting them get on with it in the most harmless way possible be considered an upside? In that way it could be seen as a lesser evil.

( Edited 24.06.2009 18:46 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:
I'm quite certain there are worse horrors in fiction, or at least as bad/similar things. After all, fiction is much easier to write than reality...

Those are the words of someone who's never seen the stuff I've seen. Should I PM you the link to the video? You'll cry like a baby and possibly vomit, and the image of this man will stay with you for the rest of your life. Trust me - it's a million times worse than anything in fiction. Fiction is fiction - this is real. Even the best looking gore-effects look like pure fakery compared to this.

SuperLink said:
People who have sick fetishes filled out by the internet would possibly use the internet for their possible curiosity or interest rather than carry out something horrible in real life. The fact that people will get these fetishes in the first place is inevitable and cannot be prevented no matter how much we want them to be, so wouldn't letting them get on with it in the most harmless way possible be considered an upside?

It's a lesser evil for certain.

I'm absolutely appalled at you for thinking this. The fetishists who consume this material are the ones who create a market for it. So in a way, even those who just watch these things are actually responsible for these deaths. Even though I've only seen a few, and some by accident, I do feel guilty. The same would go for child porn.

As someone who was abused as a child, I feel quite angry at you for calling child porn and snuff videos "a lesser evil". I'd actually probably lay you out for saying that, if you were here right now.

Martin_ said:
Those are the words of someone who\'s never seen the stuff I\'ve seen. Should I PM you the link to the video? You\'ll cry like a baby and possibly vomit, and the image of this man will stay with you for the rest of your life. Trust me - it\'s a million times worse than anything in fiction. Fiction is fiction - this is real. Even the best looking gore-effects look like pure fakery compared to this.

Yes, I know the difference between fiction and reality, but you said they were \"worse than anything in fiction\", although if the same event was described in fiction it would just as horrific, but not as realistic, if that makes sense, it affects things in a big way. This is why killing people in games doesn\'t phase people, it\'s just nowhere near the same as doing it in reality, and I think everyone realises that on some level. No matter how \"realistic\" fictional gore is, it can never compare with how terrifying it really is.

SuperLink said:
I\'m absolutely appalled at you for thinking this. The fetishists who consume this material are the ones who create a market for it. So in a way, even those who just watch these things are actually responsible for these deaths. Even though I\'ve only seen a few, and some by accident, I do feel guilty. The same would go for child porn.

I\'m no psychologist, but if there was any evidence that fulfilled fetishes supressed them from ever \"breaking free\" in some horrible physical way, then wouldn\'t that be more ideal than more people committing the crimes themselves?

If it was the other way around though then I would agree with you entirely. In any case I don\'t want this stuff on the net and I don\'t want to see it anyway.

As someone who was abused as a child, I feel quite angry at you for calling child porn and snuff videos \"a lesser evil\". I\'d actually probably lay you out for saying that, if you were here right now.

Yeh, Superlink, Lesser evil, being abused as a child is not nice, I would like to see what you think of it if you where abused the way me or martin where and watch you call it a lesser evil, it's not good and I whole heartedly disagree with all of it, cos to be honest i'm feeling relatively angry at you like martin (though I wouldn't floor you) just think before you speak or compare to in future.

Also, on this front, I havent seen any of these videos (unless it's 2 girls 1 cup...I was drunk...I threw up) and really dont want to. I think the less people watch these videos, the less (hopefully) they get posted and the people who post them get less of a kick out of it, so I try to stay as far away from them as humanely possible.

Alright, I worded it wrongly, my apologies.

Basically I\'d like to minimise suffering, almost any way, any how, because stopping it entirely is impossible.

( Edited 24.06.2009 18:22 by SuperLink )

SuperLink said:
I\'m no psychologist, but if there was any evidence that fulfilled fetishes supressed them from ever \"breaking free\" in some horrible physical way, then wouldn\'t that be more ideal than more people committing the crimes themselves?

Not true. It\'s this sort of amateur-psychology that makes people tolerate these things more. Take me for example - I have watched a few, a couple by my own choice. I would never kill someone if these videos didn\'t exist, so it doesn\'t follow at all that people who watch them would commit these acts themselves.

Most people who watch them just have a curiosity about death. Yet, by watching them, they create a market for them, and thus the videos are created, and people get hurt, in the worst imaginable way. Trust me - the victims are reduced to a state worse than animals in a slaughter house. The man is brutally-tortured and grotesquely disfigured in the most hellish way imaginable. He is still alive when they are skewering his eyeballs out. His cries of pain are utterly heart-breaking.

And I say again - fiction cannot compare. There has been no completely realistic gratuitous depiction of death in the history of cinema or gaming. Again, you would understand this if you had seen it first-hand. You can\'t know how you would feel about it until you\'ve seen it. Maybe you should watch it. Maybe you wouldn\'t be so fucking ignorant. The perpetrators of this particular one I saw last night committed 21 (!) of these murders and filmed them all before they were caught. That\'s \"a lesser evil\", is it?

SuperLink said:
Boy am I glad for the internet, where we can settle things with civilised logic rather than our fists

Maybe I should apologize for my aggression, and I\'m sure that it seems silly to say such a thing on a forum, but it\'s not a load of hot-air, I assure you. I find your stance on this utterly deplorable, and the fact that you\'ve reached this stance in pure ignorance makes it all the more worse. I would have to punch your lights out. No question about it. These are not \"lesser evils\" by any stretch of the imagination.

( Edited 24.06.2009 18:34 by Martin_ )

Martin_ said:
Not true. It\'s this sort of amateur-psychology that makes people tolerate these things more. Take me for example - I have watched a few, a couple by my own choice. I would never kill someone if these videos didn\'t exist, so it doesn\'t follow at all that people who watch them would commit these acts themselves.

Most people who watch them just have a curiosity about death. Yet, by watching them, they create a market for them, and thus the videos are created, and people get hurt, in the worst imaginable way. Trust me - the victims are reduced to a state worse than animals in a slaughter house. The man is grotesquely tortured and disfigured in the most brutal way imaginable. He is still alive when they are skewering his eyeballs out. His cries of pain are utterly heart-breaking.

And I say again - fiction cannot compare. There has been no completely realistic gratuitous depiction of death in the history of cinema or gaming.

Maybe I should apologize for my aggression, and I\'m sure that it seems silly to say such a thing on a forum, but it\'s not a load of hot-air, I assure you. I find your stance on this utterly deplorable, and the fact that you\'ve reached this stance in pure ignorance makes it all the more worse. I would have to punch your lights out. No question about it. These are not \"lesser evils\" by any stretch of the imagination.

But let\'s be clear, it\'s not my stance, I\'m playing devil\'s advocate, just offering another point of view.

EDIT: And, you\'re not understanding why I said \"lesser evil\", and you\'re taking it out of context.

Like I said before, a lesser evil would be if this was used as a deterrant (or satisfaction) for people who would otherwise do it.

With or without the internet, those 21 brutal murders would have still happened.

( Edited 24.06.2009 18:47 by SuperLink )

Echoes221 said:
I havent seen any of these videos (unless it\'s 2 girls 1 cup...I was drunk...I threw up)

2 girls 1 cup isn\'t snuff, it\'s just really sick porn. The term \'snuff films\' generally refers to murders that are filmed. That\'s my understanding of it, anyway, and that\'s what I meant with this thread. Not disgusting porn.

SuperLink said:
But some people have an undeniably more unstable conscience/psychology compared to people like you. Plenty of people have curiously done horrifying things and deeply regretted, but after seeing shock videos like that could very well be put off for life, meaning they never committ the act in the first place.

Equally - some people get a kick out of these videos, and \'graduate\' to doing it for real. The perpetrators of this one were long-time members of a snuff forum.

SuperLink said:
And if you did want to fight me I wouldn\'t fight back anyway... so w/e.

But let\'s be clear, it\'s not my stance, I\'m playing devil\'s advocate, just offering another point of view.

I\'d like to now apologize for my aggression. It\'s been like 10 minutes, and I have calmed-down over the matter. You should realize that in person, the time it has taken for my anger to dissipate would mean that I would definitely have knocked you out already. So just be mindful of that, and maybe on these extreme subjects you shouldn\'t talk with such authority as you are completely ignorant on the matter.

Anyway, I\'m sorry.

( Edited 24.06.2009 18:49 by Martin_ )

I've seen certain images that I was unfortunately exposed to unintentionally years ago. I know now what there is out there and just won't ever allow myself to even think about them for too long. I put up mental blocks in my head long ago to avoid these images coming back and haunting me.

Tis a sad sad world when videos like these exist.

SuperLink said:

Martin_ said:
Not true. It\'s this sort of amateur-psychology that makes people tolerate these things more. Take me for example - I have watched a few, a couple by my own choice. I would never kill someone if these videos didn\'t exist, so it doesn\'t follow at all that people who watch them would commit these acts themselves.

But some people have an undeniably more unstable conscience/psychology compared to people like you. Plenty of people have curiously done horrifying things and deeply regretted, but after seeing shock videos like that could very well be put off for life, meaning they never committ the act in the first place.

*Giant red X*

Weak minded people or people with \'unstable minds\' would be more likely to do it after seeing this. People easily impressionable, people with mental disabilities. Same way (Terrible example) someone tried to \'jack\' a taxi in mexico i think because he saw it on GTA. And while im sure its not as a high number, im betting nobody with a weak enough mental state would consider things like cork screws in eyes and all that shite if they hadn\'t seen the videos..

/steps back into shadow.

( Edited 24.06.2009 18:51 by TaoFire )

Martin_ said:
Equally - some people get a kick out of these videos, and \'graduate\' to doing it for real. The perpetrators of this one were long-time members of a snuff forum.

I\'d like to now apologize for my aggression. It\'s been like 10 minutes, and I have calmed-down over the matter. You should realize that in person, the time it has taken for my anger to dissipate would mean that I would definitely have knocked you out already. So just be mindful of that, and maybe on these extreme subjects you shouldn\'t talk with such authority as you are completely ignorant on the matter.

But even agitated/provoked assault is still assault!

And, I\'m not \"completely ignorant\", that\'s like saying the only person allowed a view is those with personal experience on the matter. I\'m just being objective. Nor was I talking authoritively, just rhetorically, so I apologise if I came across that way. I\'m presenting a single viewpoint, nothing more.

EDIT: @Taofire

On the other hand, someone who tries a drive by shoot \"inspired by GTA\" or w/e has no idea how horrific a REAL murder is. After seeing one of these videos, I wouldn\'t put it past them to be put off GTA entirely, rather than being influenced further.

( Edited 24.06.2009 22:08 by SuperLink )

Drive-bys and stuff aren't generally the subject matter of these videos. It's usually along the lines of one or two (usually one) victims being completely and utterly subdued so that they are totally helpless, and then tortured and disfigured in the most hellish way. Death seems like a prize by the end of the ordeal. I want to say sorry again - I acted like a douche.

A much better example would be Manhunt then.

I wouldn\'t say it\'s too much of a weird thing to enjoy the video game (personally I could never enjoy it), but enjoying pulling off a \"Manhunt inspired murder\" would be something that only the most insane of curious kids wouldn\'t regret for the rest of their lives. Arguably a video could have the same effect... I know it would on me. I would give Manhunt a try if someone passed me the controller, but I would either refuse to watch a video of the real deal, OR be sick to my stomach for the next week (or probably much longer).

I think lots of people would feel similarly on the matter.

( Edited 24.06.2009 19:04 by SuperLink )

Manhunt isn't realistic at all. None of Rockstar's games are. You don't see anyone chocking on their own spinal fluid in any game, still struggling to breath long after you'd imagine that they'd have died. The will to live is demonstrated in horrifying detail. I'm no longer angry at you, but I still find your stance deplorable. These videos do not 'save lives', as you are effectively suggesting. Besides the point, the sheer volume of these videos (this one gang made 21 of them, others have made more) makes such an argument mute anyway.