News: Nintendo: Twilight Princess is Page 2

JoshSL 10.12.2009#26

Jacob4000 said:
Of course it was worse than Twilight Princess -- how could it have really been better? Its a smaller scale Zelda on inferior hardware.

I don't think those are real barriers in gaming though. The story could have been better, the items could have been more original, there could have been more memorable characters and music, etc.

That said, I think your closer to the minority in thinking Phantom Hourglass wasn't a good Zelda game. Few people would call it a classic, but even fewer would say it wasn't a very enjoyable game.

I didn't say it wasn't enjoyable, I just think it's one of the worst in the series. In a series where almost every game is awesome that's not really a problem.

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

J4K 11.12.2009#27

I don't think those are real barriers in gaming though. The story could have been better, the items could have been more original, there could have been more memorable characters and music, etc.

What was wrong with the story or the items? The story was better presented than most Zeldas. And the items -- while technically themselves not new -- were frankly the most innovative thing this series has seen in years as far as their use goes. The new interface for using things like the boomerang was extraordinarily fresh. And the notetaking on the map -- something entirely new for the series -- worked amazingly well.

Phantom Hourglass did what it was supposed to do fantastically, be a pocket quest. I think you're equating a smaller scope with lesser quality. In my opinion, save the epic games for the consoles, and have a more compact experience on the handhelds. Nintendo pulled that off very well.

JoshSL 11.12.2009#28

Jacob4000 said:
What was wrong with the story or the items? The story was better presented than most Zeldas.

It was presented in a fancy way, but this doesn't mean it was good. The story was bare bones and hardly very memorable and interesting at all; especially the main antagonist.

And the items -- while technically themselves not new -- were frankly the most innovative thing this series has seen in years as far as their use goes. The new interface for using things like the boomerang was extraordinarily fresh.

They were all items we'd used before, just with new controls. Having both would have been nice, I think that's what Spirit Tracks will pull off well.

And the notetaking on the map -- something entirely new for the series -- worked amazingly well.

Can't help but agree there; even if it made some puzzles a bit too easy.

Phantom Hourglass did what it was supposed to do fantastically, be a pocket quest. I think you're equating a smaller scope with lesser quality.

Not at all, Oracle of Ages is my 3rd favourite Zelda of all time, and Minish Cap is a close 4th or 5th.

Nintendo pulled that off very well.

Just not as well as Capcom imo.
Phantom Hourglass was heavily lacking in story, explorability (each island that wasn't used for storyline was used for a single miniscule sidequest or a minigame), music, character (Yes Linebeck was fucking awesome, but one awesome character does not an amazing Zelda game make; also looking at you TP). This is something Capcom has managed to do well in all 3 of their games, despite the technical limitations of the GameBoys... and the fact Zelda isn't even their series.

I realise that this all boils down to opinion, but I don't think I'm alone in being disappointed with Phantom Hourglass, and I have confidence that Spirit Tracks will be what PH should've been.

I'd love for Capcom to make another 2D Zelda though...

Edit this post:

[quote][b]Jacob4000 said:[/b]<br/>What was wrong with the story or the items? The story was better presented than most Zeldas.[/quote]
It was presented in a fancy way, but this doesn't mean it was good. The story was bare bones and hardly very memorable and interesting at all; especially the main antagonist.

[quote]And the items -- while technically themselves not new -- were frankly the most innovative thing this series has seen in years as far as their use goes. The new interface for using things like the boomerang was extraordinarily fresh.[/quote]
They were all items we'd used before, just with new controls. Having both would have been nice, I think that's what Spirit Tracks will pull off well.

[quote]And the notetaking on the map -- something entirely new for the series -- worked amazingly well.[/quote]
Can't help but agree there; even if it made some puzzles a bit too easy.

[quote]Phantom Hourglass did what it was supposed to do fantastically, be a pocket quest. I think you're equating a smaller scope with lesser quality.[/quote]
Not at all, Oracle of Ages is my 3rd favourite Zelda of all time, and Minish Cap is a close 4th or 5th.

[quote]Nintendo pulled that off very well.[/quote]
Just not as well as Capcom imo.
Phantom Hourglass was heavily lacking in story, explorability (each island that wasn't used for storyline was used for a single miniscule sidequest or a minigame), music, character (Yes Linebeck was fucking awesome, but one awesome character does not an amazing Zelda game make; also looking at you TP). This is something Capcom has managed to do well in all 3 of their games, despite the technical limitations of the GameBoys... and the fact Zelda isn't even their series.

I realise that this all boils down to opinion, but I don't think I'm alone in being disappointed with Phantom Hourglass, and I have confidence that Spirit Tracks will be what PH should've been.

I'd love for Capcom to make another 2D Zelda though...

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

Marzeee 11.12.2009#29

I hated Phantom Hourglass, it's easily one of the worst Zelda's ever made, in my opinion. I had to force myself through it all. The only good thing that came out of it was Linebeck, the rest was bland.

The story wasn't interesting at all, in fact I can't even remember much about it. It certainly never kept me engaged. The there was lack of variety in the environments, everything looked the same, it looked so bland. The soundtrack had no memorable tracks, apart from the Ocean music and that was just a fake version of the one in Wind Waker.

The two worst parts for me though, were the controls and the Temple you had to keep revisiting. I found the touch-screen controls to be awful and unresponsive. I really hoped you'd be allowed to use the D-pad and buttons. The temple you had to keep going back to spoilt a lot of the game for me, it wasn't enjoyable at all, it dragged and made the game boring.

Darkflame 11.12.2009#30

I cant work out that though.
I can understand the story being bland, or complaints of temple repeats.
But aside from rolling, I found the controlls absolutely perfect.

Far better then Dpad (quicker/easier to move by far....analogue speed + all directions rather then just 8...4 of which give you thumb ache).

Personally I loved PH.
Not as good as MinishCap or Links Awankening, but better then WindWaker for me. (Wind Waker being even more repetitive with a lot less content).
TWW did have better music though.

but one awesome character does not an amazing Zelda game make; also looking at you TP)

Most Zelda games have zero.
TWW and OoT (as well as all the portables) have nearly no great characters, let alone a companion character 1/10th as good as Minda.

The best most Zelda games manage is to have 1 amusing NCP. (SPppppliissshhhh).

http://www.fanficmaker.com <-- Tells some truly terrible tales.
Last update; Mice,Plumbers,Animatronics and Airbenders. We also have the socials; Facebook & G+.

JoshSL 11.12.2009#31

Darkflame said:
But aside from rolling, I found the controlls absolutely perfect.

I liked them too.

Far better then Dpad

Not sure I would go that far though.

Personally I loved PH.
Not as good as MinishCap or Links Awankening

Or either of the Oracle games.
That's the majority of the 2D series.
Also, best typo ever might I add. Smilie

(Wind Waker being even more repetitive with a lot less content).

A lot less content? You're joking right? WW was HUGE, even if it was a bit empty. PH didn't even have Heart Pieces!!

Most Zelda games have zero.
TWW and OoT (as well as all the portables) have nearly no great characters, let alone a companion character 1/10th as good as Minda.

Really?
TWW has the whole pirate cast, Makar, and Medli, all of which were about as memorable as Linebeck to me. Makar and Medli were especially awesome.

Don't even get me started on OoT's characters. Malon? Saria? Ruto? Ingo? Mido? They were all memorable and amount to far more than Linebeck and Midna alone.

Link's Awakening had Marin and her dad, crazy Tracy, the Bow-wow/ChainChomp.
Oracle games had Nayru, Din, Farore, Ralph, Moosh, Ricky, Dimitri, and original villains that didn't suck.

Majora's Mask has the best and deepest cast of NPCs in gaming history. I could go on.

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

J4K 11.12.2009#32

It was presented in a fancy way, but this doesn\'t mean it was good. The story was bare bones and hardly very memorable and interesting at all; especially the main antagonist.

Okay really, what Zelda has truly had a nuanced story? With few, if any, exceptions there all bare bones. That\'s more a complaint for the series in general; it isn\'t fair to single out Phantom Hourglass here. Atleast it did have a bit of cinematic flair to it.

The two worst parts for me though, were the controls and the Temple you had to keep revisiting. I found the touch-screen controls to be awful and unresponsive. I really hoped you\'d be allowed to use the D-pad and buttons. The temple you had to keep going back to spoilt a lot of the game for me, it wasn\'t enjoyable at all, it dragged and made the game boring.

The Temple is a polarizing issue for many, and I understand that (apparently its changed in Spirit Tracks, so your complaints have been heard). I enjoyed the temple. My one complaint on Phantom Hourglass is its lack of difficulty. So I rather enjoyed the Sea King\'s temple, because it was one of the few parts of the games that presented a challenge.

We couldn\'t be further apart on the controls issue though. I never want the series to go back to D-Pad after Phantom Hourglass.

( Edited 10.12.2009 22:55 by Jacob4000 )

JoshSL 11.12.2009#33

Jacob4000 said:
Okay really, what Zelda has truly had a nuanced story? With few, if any, exceptions there all bare bones. That's more a complaint for the series in general; it isn't fair to single out Phantom Hourglass here. Atleast it did have a bit of cinematic flair to it.

Even though it should be, story has never been incredibly strong in the series. However I don't believe it's ever been as weak as PH's, atleast not for a long time, especially after Capcom had a 5 game streak of great original games with loveable music and characters and locations, and most of all good villains.

Honestly I couldn't care less if PH is more cinematic than Oracle of Ages if the story and characters it has to tell are still much weaker. If Nintendo want 2D Zelda to become more cinematic, they can't just throw in some hefty cutscenes, they atleast need a nice cinematic story to go with it, rather than the staple "save something from something huge and unimaginitive" with hardly any juicy bits to go in between!

Twitter | C3 Writer/Moderator | Backloggery

Martin_ 11.12.2009#34

SuperLink said:
No I mean new items unlocking new areas. If you can go almost everywhere from the start that doesn't leave much space for new areas you can get to with your sparkly new hookshot!

Create areas within the open world that the player physically cannot get to until they've gained a certain skill or item, and then Bob might be your uncle. They're called "ideas". Nintendo employ a whole bunch of incredibly talented folk. If they'd loosen the leash on Zelda even just a tiny bit and let their devs go nuts on it, they might really have something again. In all honesty, there was nothing 'wrong' with any Zelda I played. I just felt as it went on it became so formulaic of a product to ingest, if you like. Even down to nearly the same storyline, setting and everything most times.

What I'd like to see is Nintendo let go of the corporate politics for at least one zelda game and let a team really create an oddball entry into the series. I'd give my left nut to see a Hyrule set 2,000 years afterwards, and Hyrule town has grown into a huge neon city. Zelda lives in a techno-palace, and spends all day smoking and looking really cool, and Link is a bounty-hunter, and spends all day smoking and looking really cool.

Although it's the future (even from our perspective), all the televisions and computer monitors are pathetically low-res and crappy. There's a big neon Coca-Cola bulletin board on the side of Hyrule castle, and cars fly everywhere. Link has a specially customised car called "Epona", even has the Ferrari horse on it (tons of product-placement in this fucker).

Okay, maybe not. But I'd certainly shave an eyebrow off and replace it with glued-on pubic hairs if Nintendo would commit to making such a game.

SuperLink said:
But you listed under half of the 2D Zeldas there. There's also:
Games..

Yeah, I know. I'm probably not as versed in Zelda as you. I have heard of all those games, and played them all a bit on emulators. I do just mean "a bit", though.

SuperLink said:
You say that as if every Zelda released in the last decade hasn't been met with critical acclaim.
Zelda isn't like Sonic y'know.

Yeah, haha. It does kind of sound like that. I don't mean it like that, though.

Edit this post:

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b]<br/>No I mean new items unlocking new areas. If you can go almost everywhere from the start that doesn't leave much space for new areas you can get to with your sparkly new hookshot![/quote]

Create areas within the open world that the player physically cannot get to until they've gained a certain skill or item, and then Bob might be your uncle. They're called "ideas". Nintendo employ a whole bunch of incredibly talented folk. If they'd loosen the leash on Zelda even just a tiny bit and let their devs go nuts on it, they might really have something again. In all honesty, there was nothing 'wrong' with any Zelda I played. I just felt as it went on it became so formulaic of a product to ingest, if you like. Even down to nearly the same storyline, setting and everything most times.

What I'd like to see is Nintendo let go of the corporate politics for at least one zelda game and let a team really create an oddball entry into the series. I'd give my left nut to see a Hyrule set 2,000 years afterwards, and Hyrule town has grown into a huge neon city. Zelda lives in a techno-palace, and spends all day smoking and looking really cool, and Link is a bounty-hunter, and spends all day smoking and looking really cool.

Although it's the future (even from our perspective), all the televisions and computer monitors are pathetically low-res and crappy. There's a big neon Coca-Cola bulletin board on the side of Hyrule castle, and cars fly everywhere. Link has a specially customised car called "Epona", even has the Ferrari horse on it (tons of product-placement in this fucker).

Okay, maybe not. But I'd certainly shave an eyebrow off and replace it with glued-on pubic hairs if Nintendo would commit to making such a game.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b]<br/>But you listed under half of the 2D Zeldas there. There's also:

Games..[/quote]

Yeah, I know. I'm probably not as versed in Zelda as you. I have heard of all those games, and played them all a bit on emulators. I do just mean "a bit", though.

[quote][b]SuperLink said:[/b]<br/>You say that as if every Zelda released in the last decade hasn't been met with critical acclaim.
Zelda isn't like Sonic y'know.[/quote]

Yeah, haha. It does kind of sound like that. I don't mean it like that, though.

Save Changes Cancel Full Edit

crackedthesky 11.12.2009#35

Somebody mentioned the first Zelda being non-linear: This is what I want. Except with a bit more story; the first game just plopped you into the middle of a world with little more than a page out of the isntruction manual to go by; but a more free-roaming experience with a thicker storyline, more side-quests, much more diverse land and graphics, etc. I think would be badass.

NNID: crackedthesky
My blog, mostly about writing: http://www.davidjlovato.com

Martin_ 11.12.2009#36

justonesp00lturn said:
Somebody mentioned the first Zelda being non-linear: This is what I want. Except with a bit more story; the first game just plopped you into the middle of a world with little more than a page out of the isntruction manual to go by; but a more free-roaming experience with a thicker storyline, more side-quests, much more diverse land and graphics, etc. I think would be badass.

Flynnie 12.12.2009#37

Hmmm, i don't think you guys have really delved into what this topic actually means apart from debating which is the best way for a Zelda game to be presented in terms of the past.

I still think they are going to radically shake things up. Doesn't anyone else think that they are just going to take a whole new complete structure.

They are even questioning themselves on the repetitive nature of the games!

crackedthesky 12.12.2009#38

White Ranger said:
Hmmm, i don't think you guys have really delved into what this topic actually means apart from debating which is the best way for a Zelda game to be presented in terms of the past.
I still think they are going to radically shake things up. Doesn't anyone else think that they are just going to take a whole new complete structure.
They are even questioning themselves on the repetitive nature of the games!

The fact that Miyamoto said the next Zelda won't be radically different had me believing it would probably not be radically different.
I don't know, though. Spirit Tracks already looks like it's taking on a lot of very new ideas for the series, and I hadn't heard any mention of such a thing.

NNID: crackedthesky
My blog, mostly about writing: http://www.davidjlovato.com

Cheesing It Up 17.12.2009#39

Unfortunately I can't see this new Zelda Wii being anything more then a slight evolution, and it's a shame because Zelda really does need a shake up.

PS: Phantom Hourglass was awesome.

Keven 17.12.2009#40

Cheese on Toast said:
PS: Phantom Hourglass was awesome.

Yes, but it did get pretty boring after awhile, going back to the Ocean King and what-not again and again and again.

That's the thing about Zelda games. You give a solid game that has the things that make a Zelda game a Zelda game, but then people gripe and groan about how it's just like all the other Zelda games. On the flip side, you give them something totally new, such as Majora's Mask or Phantom Hourglass, then they gripe and groan about how they don't like it because it's different from the norm.

On the topic of the Wii Zelda, can't wait till it comes out. I absolutely loved TP, easily my second favorite after Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons (hey, it's the first ever Zelda games I played, so it's easily my favorite Smilie ).

The former top user was Keven! You'd probably give birth to yourself 1000 times over until you sprout wings to fly away into the fading sun, that or you'd just turn into a lesbian. Who knows @_@ - L, 12/06/09

JoshSL 17.12.2009#41

Keven said:
That's the thing about Zelda games. You give a solid game that has the things that make a Zelda game a Zelda game, but then people gripe and groan about how it's just like all the other Zelda games. On the flip side, you give them something totally new, such as Majora's Mask or Phantom Hourglass, then they gripe and groan about how they don't like it because it's different from the norm.

The difference between Phantom Hourglass and Majora's Mask is that a very large portion of the fanbase see Majora's Mask as the greatest game of all time.

Phantom Hourglass was different from the norm in that it wasn't good enough to be a Zelda title ( Smilie ). Spirit Tracks honestly fixed all that. It's hard, it has a great story and soundtracks, great character, sidequests, and quite frankly the puzzles are genius.

On the topic of the Wii Zelda, can't wait till it comes out. I absolutely loved TP, easily my second favorite after Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons (hey, it's the first ever Zelda games I played, so it's easily my favorite ).

I thought I was the only one who liked the Oracle games way more than most people Smilie